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I could offer ourselves as sacrifical lambs...we are planning to come build a cabin on our other lot this winter.
The first home we built, we ran smack dab in to small town politics here in Okla.. Didn't know what was going on for a while. Well, we were doing everything right, but the uppers in office were having a power struggle...and we got put right in the middle..put a stop to our building....local news got involved..inspector threatened to quit..they were trying to oust the Mayor...a really nice guy. Man, small town politics..yikes. We had to go to meetings and it got really silly. Then the town lawyer got involved and told us to sue the city if they didn't quit....then they did.
So...maybe its time to jump back in the fire...eh, what is life without some excitement...but you guys better back me up when it gets rough!
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IMHO, the issue really comes up when a property is being sold and the buyers need a mortgage. No unpermitted structures may be included in the appraisal and in Hawaii unpermitted structures seem to be the norm, they are everywhere. We ended up buying a house which had unpermitted lanais, because they have no railings on the lower 2 levels which are only 2'-3'off of the ground. The former owner was an architect and he did not want to ruin the integrity of his design. However, we looked at properties where entire structures and additions had no permits and therefore selling them later would be difficult, unless the buyers are paying cash, or as Dave stated were concerned about their safety in an unpermitted structure. I personally think that the permitting process is important for that very reason.
Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany
www.myhawaiianhome.blogspot.com
www.eastbaypotters.blogspot.com
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If the permitting process is too difficult (too many flaming hoops to jump through) then a lot of work will just "go underground".
How you gonna know that house you're looking to buy deosn't use 14awg wire on 20amp circuits? The former owners did not have the money to hire an electrician, so they did it themselves, best way they "knew how". If the former owners were able to get a permit to do the work themselves, possibly (don't laugh!) an inspector would have caught it and got them to correct it.
Puna: Our roosters crow first
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No worries, Jungle Man, there are very few un-permitted houses which have sewer or county water connections. The availability of sewerage and water systems is generally only in areas of dense enough housing to support these systems. When there is enough density of houses to support systems like this, there is enough density of folks who will complain about un-permitted houses that they all get building permits. Attaching to the systems also requires a meter which is installed by the water company, at least on the ingoing side and they don't attach the meter without approved backflow devices.
There are multiple levels of un-permitted homes. The most primitive level is the tent/shack out in the jungle. No electric or sewer service, no water, no mail delivery, telephone lines maybe but with cell phones now most jungle living folks use those, no internet, no cable, no pavement and some of the roads are 4WD access only. Next to the fellow living in a tent can be "regular" permitted structure, however, by "regular" we mean the same lack of services. No electric, sewer, water, mail, telephone, internet, cable or pavement. However, the person built the house to code and got a permit to do it. Frequently, his neighbor will not be happy about that since it brings inspectors to the neighborhood and if the fellow off in the jungle in the un-permitted house is visible from the street, he could be cited.
Another type of un-permitted structure is one where they are using the building for something that isn't allowed. Things such as multiple family dwellings on AG zoning or small lots which can only have one house (usually the house has multiple un-permitted kitchens installed), commercial enterprises on AG or residential zoning, etc. Generally, the structure has a permit but is being used for an un-permitted use.
Several decades ago, the building permit process was a lot simpler and anyone who had enough skill to build a house could get a building permit pretty easily without the requirement for an architect's or engineer's stamp. There was no requirement for a septic engineer stamp, there were no hurricane ties. Basically, a fairly rudimentary sketch could be given to the building department and they would issue an owner-builder permit and that would be it. It is still possible to do that, by the way, but there is a fairly long list of restrictions you'd have to meet such as a concrete slab floor, eaves 30" or less, etc. You still have to use the licensed electricians and plumbers, though.
"I like yard sales," he said. "All true survivalists like yard sales."
Kurt Wilson
"I like yard sales," he said. "All true survivalists like yard sales."
Kurt Wilson
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There must be a precedent court case that deals with a situation where a State has dissallowed a citizen from preforming their own services and designated that they use a professional service instead. Does anyone know of such a case?
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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Some writers are lumping architects in with electricians and plumbers as a requirement for ALL homes. The current code in Hawaii does require those trades to be locally licensed, and which parts of a home are relatively invisible to someone who may purchase it down the road? And which parts affect the health and safety more than these two primary systems? This is not an unreasonable rule. Structurally speaking, kit homes and typical domestic boxes are usually safe since wood structures can be forgiving and are usually redundant (overbuilt). Architects are required by law for Hawaiian homes only when you build in steel and concrete and the placement or lack of a rebar or a critical weld or bolt could mean a disastrous collapse. In Hawaii, these and more advanced hybrids of these materials are my choices for sustainable, long-lasting buildings that will outlast generations of owners. I am constantly researching and striving for the best ways to build, and I have been doing this with an advanced degree and licenses in two states for thirty two years. Architects are not part of the problem, and good ones continually look for even better solutions. Hawaii County is not the problem if you want to compare the permit process in Puna to most of California, for example. A good architect will show you how to apply your energy to the more expensive components of your home, and not be distracted by the plumbing, electrical, and structure.
John Maloney
310.562.0362
johnmaloney3@me.com
Hawaii Architect AR8082
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Anybody aware of how many "permitted" homes are occupied here with failed inspections yet an approved final? How? The architect of record signs off in a letter, over-riding the issues causing the failed inspection. The letter goes into the file associated with the project. County is off the hook. It's pathetic. Why have codes if they can be covered up by a letter? I have experienced this on two projects, annoying [  !]
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Codes are written to address issues of health, safety, structural integrity, etc and provide in some cases a default requirement to which builders may rely on for minimum standards of practice. An Architect is licensed to analyze some of the issues and to verify that the issues have been met, not necessarily to code, but by some means that the architect has deemed sufficient. That is what his expertise and license allows him to do.
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In some cases this is strictly CYA from inspector standpoint, Some cases a deviation from the approved plan, but in an improved way (but still an inspection "failure")
David
quote:
Originally posted by Sandra A.
Anybody aware of how many "permitted" homes are occupied here with failed inspections yet an approved final? How? The architect of record signs off in a letter, over-riding the issues causing the failed inspection. The letter goes into the file associated with the project. County is off the hook. It's pathetic. Why have codes if they can be covered up by a letter? I have experienced this on two projects, annoying [!]
Ninole Resident
Ninole Resident
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Hmmm...a sliding glass door exiting to a set of stairs shooting straight down (no landing to first step out onto), with the last step landing inside the adjacent lot yet (over the lot line). An exterior door opening with a height clearance 4" too low. Two failed pre-pour inspections, builder poured and framed anyway (debris in footings). I'd have to pull the files to refresh my memory. But this gets the builder off citing the contract "to be built according to county code with approved Final Inspection". They get the Final and you have to pay for it as is.
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