Grey Water And Composting Toilets

[james weatherford]

quote:

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Originally posted by asly
...gray water garden?
...composter completely off grid?

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Not exactly a "water garden" and no "cesspool" -- we have some short reeds growing over where the water is distributed; we could and may plant something else to take up the water.

The toilet seat is on the second floor and the "composter" is a free standing tank-like thing on the ground floor. See http://www.clivus.com.

James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park

[asly]

Thanks James. Why did you choose to go with a composting system?

And then, I dreamt of Hawaii... http://crazypineappledream.blogspot.com/

[james weatherford]

quote:

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Originally posted by asly Why ... a composting system?

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Standard reason: to keep the nasties out of the ground water.

James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park

[alohaglady]

My husband and I, in an effort to be more green in our residence which was on cess pool, purchased a non-electric composting toilet a couple of years ago from Scoshi's in Honokaa. The unit was vented through the roof and the excess liquid drained into the former toilet plumbing to the cess pool. Per the manual, we added a white wood shaving and peat moss mix, plus a spray of bacteria enhancer when we cranked the drum twice a week. We happily experienced no bad smells in the house and the resulting compost was odor-free and well-received in my flower beds; however we couldn't seem to control flies in the unit. The manufacturer recommended spraying a dilution of malathion and water, which controlled the fly problem if I sprayed it at least twice a day. We experienced no unpleasant odor from our human "deposits", but we soon determined that the constant smell of malathion in our house was unacceptable. We removed the composting toilet and returned to the "ungreen" solution. We later installed it in a vinyl shed for the use of our workers as they built our new house on another property -- worked great that way. Bottom line, we really like the idea of a composting toilet, but would recommend one be used only in its' own building or shed, and not in your home.

[Malapuaao]

In earnest hopes of being green we too tried a composting toilet. Unfortunately, we got the non-electric model and there is no way to properly dry a turd in Puna before it turns to a moving mass of larvae.

Nobody mentioned incinerator toilets which they use up in Canada. I've never heard anything bad about hem except they cost a few bucks a day to burn the waste. Incinerators are either electric or LP. I wonder if anyone has had success with them here in Puna?

http://www.incinolet.com/

http://ecojohn.com/


aloha

[asly]

I too would like to hear if anyone has personal experience with the incinolet.

I guess when I looked at them I didn't realize they could be ran on propane. I just thought there seemed to be a lot of what ifs with this system, like if power went out. Guess you'd be more apt to keep on top of keeping a propane tank filled if your toilet ran on it too. :-)

And then, I dreamt of Hawaii... http://crazypineappledream.blogspot.com/

[MarkP]

What makes the most sense to me is to build a cesspool and a regular flush toilet. Some people will prefer that anyway. Then build a bucket/sawdust toilet in an out of the way place that is not obviously a bathroom. After all crapping inside where you eat and sleep is a rather recent innovation only made possible by vast quantities of water. You could keep the sawdust toilet in a shed and those who cared would just use it. Properly used it generates no bugs because the waste is carefully covered with sawdust and the bucket is emptied regularly. The sawdust and waste is manually put into the center of an active aerobic compost heap of which most of the people interested in composting toilets will probably already have at least one. You could empty the bucket after each use if you really felt strongly about it. My point is that some of these self contained composting toilets have to be rather complicated in order to maintain the same level of convenience as a flush toilet. You pay a lot for that convenience and clearly you don't always get the results if you have to brush maggots off the seat before sitting down. You never get maggots with the sawdust toilet because the waste is never there that long. The trade-off is that you have to go out back with the bucket on a regular basis and dig the waste into an active compost heap.

In short just build a regular toilet for use by those who can't handle anything else and to show anyone who is likely to object to other systems. Then use the old fashioned bucket/sawdust/compost heap for use by yourself and anyone else who can be trusted to use it right. Managed properly there is no visible waste, no odor, no pests or flies, nothing to attract attention. Just make sure that you manage the composting process correctly because while it is perfectly possible to compost humanure almost out in the open without attracting attention it will be almost impossible to swim against the current of public condemnation if anyone anyone realizes you are "dumping crap in the back yard". You won't be dumping it you will be composting it. You can compost a dead cow with enough sawdust and plant matter for cover and with the right technique. However you will never talk your way out of that hole if you don't make sure it is composting properly.

Just to play the devil's advocate, what is so green about a composting toilet or graywater recycling? Is it the water you save? Here in Puna we have all the water we need and more, so no points in heaven for that. Is it that they don't contaminate ground water? A properly designed septic system and leach field doesn't contaminate the ground water. If you are prepared to spend thousands on a composting toilet consider spending that money on a leach field instead of a cesspool and get the same benefit. If you are concerned about all the rain in puna flushing the wastewater down past the aerobic layer in the soil before it has a chance to be cleaned by soil organisms, spend money on a greenhouse to be situated over the leach field and reap the added benefit of having a greenhouse.

I know I am tossing these suggestions out like they were easy or obvious and guaranteed to be right, but it is not my intention to preach. I am only trying to perform a reality check because a lot of graywater recycling systems are associated with earthships for example that are best suited to arid climates. Once a concept has the green stamp of approval that is what people tend to see instead of the original merits of the system, which in this case might be great for the desert but of little consequence in a rainforest.

[asly]

Thanks Mark for the reality check. I've used the old bucket and sawdust and agree, it can work better than the fancy composting systems. Wouldn't want to be dumping it in my compost pile if I'm located on a small residential lot as you mention, neighbors may have issue.

I was interested on exploring composting toilets, especially if we go completely off grid. However, now I understand about the arid climate verses the climate in the Puna area being a MAJOR factor. The systems are quite expensive so it's almost a wash when comparing price. We will be looking at a flush system now, depending upon our location it will either be cesspool or septic.

[MarkP]

In many parts of Puna it rains 10' to 15' a year and most catchment systems spend a lot of time overflowing. To be sure there are times when it doesn't rain for a month and residents experience a shortage of water but as long as there were other times during the year when the catchment was overflowing it is unclear whether the problem is an overall lack of water versus insufficient storage capacity. I think it would be cheaper and more practical to install a larger catchment tank than to install a gray water recycling system.

[EightFingers]

I have a woodshop, so I should have plenty of sawdust! I will probably be the only one who uses the "device" however. []

Instead of one big catchment tank, why not have two smaller ones? When you clean one, you can still use the other without water interuption.