hawaii gun control laws

[konadave]

We can all find and use whatever examples we want to support our position on this subject. This country/that country is better/worse off because of their laws. This state/city are better/worse off because of their laws. I can find an example to support all sides. It makes no difference to reality.

In a perfect world no one can argue that if there are no guns then there can be no gun violence. But we don't live in that world. We live in a world where guns are all around us and are part of our culture and heritage.

The problem is that we cannot eliminate all the guns from this country. And if we could we cannot stop illegal smuggling of them with our porous borders to those who do not honor our laws. No laws are perfect and are mostly just compromises.

1. Gun Seizure: If you eliminate guns by making them illegal then only those who do not honor our laws will have guns. This leaves law abiding citizens defenseless against a gun carrying criminal.
2. Concealed Carry: If you allow guns to be carried by law abiding citizens then there will be accidental deaths due to human error. But at least a law abiding citizen can protect themselves and their family outside of their home.
3. Gun Control: If you only allow law abiding citizens to use their guns in self defense of their homes then they can't defend themselves outside their homes.

Everything in this world is a compromise. Of the three compromise examples I gave above, which one would you prefer? If I missed a particular example please feel free to add a realistic scenario to the list.

The biggest problem I see here are the existing laws pertaining to punishment of someone using a gun. Not the laws controlling or outlawing a gun. I remember the TV ads they used to run in CA. "Use a gun, go to jail." If the punishment is a year or two in jail then it is not much of a punishment. If murderers are allowed to become free after 10, 20 or 30 years then most people can kill two or three times in their lifetime and serve jail time. Big deal. Our laws NEED to protect the innocent. But they seem to be encouraging the bad guys. If you let a bad guy out of jail who used a gun, chances are when he gets out he will use it again. If the bad guys know if they use a gun once then they will never get out of jail, or they would be put to death (or worse like torture), would they think twice before using a gun? Or would they use a knife, car or baseball bat instead? If we completely eliminated guns from our country would we really lower the murder and injury rate? Or just force a weapon substitution?

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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former". --Albert Einstein

[Sandra A.]

Regarding the concealed weapon permit here: I was told 4 or so years ago that it would be unlikely I would ever qualify for one. This at the police station where I was registering a rifle I purchased for my then boyfriend for Christmas. I didn't understand with no questioning or inquiry about me and my background, how this police station person determined it would be "unlikely" I would qualify for a concealed handgun permit(?). I'm not crazy about guns, but maybe a woman alone would want one with her while camping maybe, something like that.

Just like the dog quarantine law I faced when moving here 14 yrs ago...same stupid law since the 40's, FOUR long months in Aiea at the concentration camp and the cost on top of it. Unreal. One thing Lingle did, she chaged that law.

[dirk1609]

It isn't just a CCW you cant get in Hawaii, try pretty much any means of defending one self without a baseball bat, stick, rock or fist.
Tasers, Stunguns, and certain pepper sprays are also a no no in this goofy state, unless of course you are a cop or criminal.

In Hawaii you must be a Cop, fighting expert, or criminal to defend yourself. If you are none of the above and you end up in a situation with someone that does not care if they do you harm then you may end up as part of this.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/hicrime.htm


365 people were raped last year in Hawaii, with no way to defend themselves. I would assume the bulk of the stun guns and tasers carried in the US are carried by women to defend themselves from crime. Unless you happen to be a police officer or breaking the law you cant even own a stun gun here.

Many things in the US kill people.

Poor eating habits kill many more people every year than guns, stun guns, tasers etc, Maybe the Gov should get involved in our eating Habits.

I bet legal drugs kill more people every year than guns, stun guns, tasers etc.

Our highways kill more people than any of the above and it seems our local Gov is helpless to stop it.

What would you or your loved ones do if confronted with a violent attacker? Call the police? By the time they get there the criminal will probably have already finished what ever they were going to do and have the time to drive home.

I understand the idea that you will not always be in range of a chosen item to defend yourself but in many cases you will be and at least you had the right.

[PaulW]

Jefferson never said that. Or did he write bumper stickers in his spare time?

I think Obie has a very good point. If you compare the list of firearm deaths by state and the list of gun ownership rates per state then the correlation is remarkable. Hawaii is at or near the very bottom of both. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[dirk1609]

Check Washington DC strict gun laws compared to the fact that its the murder capital of the US.

Also check the fact that 1000s are raped murdered robbed etc in Hawaii every year and they had no way to defend themselves.

[PaulW]

DC is not a state. Check the correlation between gun ownership and firearm deaths in US states and it's almost 1-to-1.
Correlation is not causation but again, why fix something that's already working.

[oink]

quote:

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Originally posted by PaulW: correlation between gun ownership and firearm deaths in US states and it's almost 1-to-1

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Care to explain further. Better comparisons by population would be All murders (not homicides) to all murders. All rapes to all rapes, all burglaries to ...., well you get the idea. The only one that should specify guns is gun accidents. Other factors will skew numbers shuch as demographics. For an example, an area with high concentrations of organized gangs would be expected to have more murders.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Bullwinkle]

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.polit...f?lnk=raot&fwc=1&pli=1

I have been steering clear of the argument having lost my fascination with guns long ago.... My initial post to follow the court and its relation to Hawaii .

But as to to the facts.... gun owners are 4 times more likely to be assaulted by a weapon than non. - lack of training being the issue in my opinion

The issue isn't guns.... its the adrenalin and fear driven john wayne behavior of the owners - again opinion

but the facts speak for themselves... gun owners are 4 times likely to get shot....

Now to really start a rant .... check out this tidbit....

"Historically, says Hall, homicide rates are at their lowest when
social-democratic policies govern nations. The US homicide rate was
halved in the decades following the Depression, when the social
democratic policies of the New Deal replaced ailing free-market"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...103525.htm
Aloha

[DickWilson]

I've been staying out of this as arguing gun rights in Hawaii, is like trying to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and irritates the pig. However there is a lot of blame the guns for the crimes going on. I would point to 2 countries where there is a gun in EVERY home, required by law, where violent crime rates are very low "IE, Israel, and Switzerland". I would therefore ask, since these evil firearms are present, and in fact are fully automatic weapons, why do these countries not suffer from a huge incidence of violent crimes? If in fact the correlation of guns to violent crime is true?

dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"

[Bullwinkle]

Israel, and Switzerland

interestingly both nations could be described as social democracies.... hawaii having those leanings imho