10-09-2014, 11:42 AM
ophikao: I think you responded appropriately to a rather vile and inappropriate comment.
2Liveque: I’ll take you seriously and I guess some of what you’re saying is that Mauna Kea’s peak, at least, is sacrosanct and the feeling of you and the people who agree with you is that no observatories (or any buildings at all?) is the only option. Any building is desecration. I don’t agree with this Manichean position, but perhaps this is your point. Actually I am surprised most Hawaiians with connections to kanaka maoli don’t see the TMT and other observatories as honoring the Hawaiian past.
"The HA-OLE will make senseless connections to Mauna Kea and "the great Hawaiian astronomers of the past.””
Here’s where I don’t see your point. I think there are actually deep connections between Mauna Kea, the “great Hawaiian astronomers of the past” and the TMT project or, for that matter, the other amazing astronomy installations on Mauna Kea.
The Hawaiians of the past and their ancestors were great astronomers! Given their tools and understanding of the universe they performed great feats of long ocean voyages. Thousands of years of westward migration by sea culminated in many epic voyages from the South Pacific to Hawai’i, Rapa Nui and probably South America. On land, the moon calendar was consulted for day to day tasks. Many constellations and individual stars were named.
Today's observatories are the modern and natural extensions of the capabilities of the Hawaiians “of the past.” They honor the Hawaiian culture of observation of the celestial skies. Astronomy is supported by science which is generally neutral in issues of culture and religion, though science does not provide support for the latter. Observatories do take up some of the ‘aina on Mauna Kea, but they are generally elegant structures with literally “out of this world” capabilities. They provide some of the best high tech jobs on the island and will encourage our brightest keiki make their homes here. There is a direct connection with UH Hilo. Education brings wealth of many kinds to our island. And of course all those jobs directly and indirectly support many more jobs so wealth is shared.
There seems to be great connections between the Hawaiian past and the scientific present being developed on Mauna Kea. At the very least, “sensible” connections.
2Liveque: I’ll take you seriously and I guess some of what you’re saying is that Mauna Kea’s peak, at least, is sacrosanct and the feeling of you and the people who agree with you is that no observatories (or any buildings at all?) is the only option. Any building is desecration. I don’t agree with this Manichean position, but perhaps this is your point. Actually I am surprised most Hawaiians with connections to kanaka maoli don’t see the TMT and other observatories as honoring the Hawaiian past.
"The HA-OLE will make senseless connections to Mauna Kea and "the great Hawaiian astronomers of the past.””
Here’s where I don’t see your point. I think there are actually deep connections between Mauna Kea, the “great Hawaiian astronomers of the past” and the TMT project or, for that matter, the other amazing astronomy installations on Mauna Kea.
The Hawaiians of the past and their ancestors were great astronomers! Given their tools and understanding of the universe they performed great feats of long ocean voyages. Thousands of years of westward migration by sea culminated in many epic voyages from the South Pacific to Hawai’i, Rapa Nui and probably South America. On land, the moon calendar was consulted for day to day tasks. Many constellations and individual stars were named.
Today's observatories are the modern and natural extensions of the capabilities of the Hawaiians “of the past.” They honor the Hawaiian culture of observation of the celestial skies. Astronomy is supported by science which is generally neutral in issues of culture and religion, though science does not provide support for the latter. Observatories do take up some of the ‘aina on Mauna Kea, but they are generally elegant structures with literally “out of this world” capabilities. They provide some of the best high tech jobs on the island and will encourage our brightest keiki make their homes here. There is a direct connection with UH Hilo. Education brings wealth of many kinds to our island. And of course all those jobs directly and indirectly support many more jobs so wealth is shared.
There seems to be great connections between the Hawaiian past and the scientific present being developed on Mauna Kea. At the very least, “sensible” connections.