07-24-2015, 09:05 PM
I am sorry to see so much tension.
Must agree with Tom here about the importance of science. I am stuck in bed a lot and am so grateful for the Internet! When I was young I read an Isaac Asimov story which featured something like the Internet, but I never dreamed I would get to use something like that in my lifetime! My school had just got one of the early calculators. It cost hundreds of dollars. Students could look at it, but not touch it.
Of course, it is scientific advance that is keeping me alive right now. What Jeb Bush has just announced would take my Medicare from me, and I will die then. When I heard this I became very ill for two days. I was born after the magic cutoff year which I think is 1959. I cherish life.
There does seem to be a lot of confusion about the telescopes and money. Like anything else, research must be paid for. Telescopes are for research, for discoveries and knowledge, but thus cost money rather than make it. The world is lucky to have some people and institutions who are willing to pay for increased knowledge without demanding a financial return from it. I'm worried this is slowly changing but that is a subject for another time. In the meantime, grateful for what is there...
Opihikao, Thank you for caring whether I get well. When I got home today I fell asleep and only woke up now, about 4 am! Still tired so I will get ready and go to bed.
As for the rest, I wrote this on the other thread:
"Gypsy, Da Kine and Southermost have clashed with me because we disagree on the TMT issue. But I respect everyone as a fellow human being. I also respect the Hawaiian people, Hawaiian culture, and kupuna. I wish there were some wise kupuna who could mediate this dispute, which is about so much more than a telescope.
I just believe it is not fair to block the TMT after an agreement which took seven years of effort has been granted. I think telescope leases should also be honored.
But, when leases are up, or when a new telescope is proposed, that is when I think protesters shoul be ready, organized, peaceful, but clear about what they want.
That is only about the telescopes. Agreements must be honored. But the non- telescope issues should be separately but thoroughly addressed. I am the first to agree that these are very important.
I also think the visitor's center should be respected and allowed to open, and serious discussion of a Hawaiian cultural center should begin.
Hoping aloha spirit will prevail."
I hope we will be able to keep our friendships here on PW and repair any rifts. I'm assuming there will have to be a lot of "must agree to disagree" which is fine.
Gypsy, I am a transplant to CA. Not sure if I should be answering you here or the other thread since I am too tired to remember what I read where! My parents went to CA when Dad got a job there. Not a job which led to wealth, just a job. They found a place with better schools for us then where we had come from, but that was because CA had good schools in general, then. We almost moved to Hawaii. Dad's mom lived in Hawaii. I have always had a special place in my heart for Hawaii.
Hugs to all but especially Tom and Opihikao.
Pam in CA
Must agree with Tom here about the importance of science. I am stuck in bed a lot and am so grateful for the Internet! When I was young I read an Isaac Asimov story which featured something like the Internet, but I never dreamed I would get to use something like that in my lifetime! My school had just got one of the early calculators. It cost hundreds of dollars. Students could look at it, but not touch it.
Of course, it is scientific advance that is keeping me alive right now. What Jeb Bush has just announced would take my Medicare from me, and I will die then. When I heard this I became very ill for two days. I was born after the magic cutoff year which I think is 1959. I cherish life.
There does seem to be a lot of confusion about the telescopes and money. Like anything else, research must be paid for. Telescopes are for research, for discoveries and knowledge, but thus cost money rather than make it. The world is lucky to have some people and institutions who are willing to pay for increased knowledge without demanding a financial return from it. I'm worried this is slowly changing but that is a subject for another time. In the meantime, grateful for what is there...
Opihikao, Thank you for caring whether I get well. When I got home today I fell asleep and only woke up now, about 4 am! Still tired so I will get ready and go to bed.
As for the rest, I wrote this on the other thread:
"Gypsy, Da Kine and Southermost have clashed with me because we disagree on the TMT issue. But I respect everyone as a fellow human being. I also respect the Hawaiian people, Hawaiian culture, and kupuna. I wish there were some wise kupuna who could mediate this dispute, which is about so much more than a telescope.
I just believe it is not fair to block the TMT after an agreement which took seven years of effort has been granted. I think telescope leases should also be honored.
But, when leases are up, or when a new telescope is proposed, that is when I think protesters shoul be ready, organized, peaceful, but clear about what they want.
That is only about the telescopes. Agreements must be honored. But the non- telescope issues should be separately but thoroughly addressed. I am the first to agree that these are very important.
I also think the visitor's center should be respected and allowed to open, and serious discussion of a Hawaiian cultural center should begin.
Hoping aloha spirit will prevail."
I hope we will be able to keep our friendships here on PW and repair any rifts. I'm assuming there will have to be a lot of "must agree to disagree" which is fine.
Gypsy, I am a transplant to CA. Not sure if I should be answering you here or the other thread since I am too tired to remember what I read where! My parents went to CA when Dad got a job there. Not a job which led to wealth, just a job. They found a place with better schools for us then where we had come from, but that was because CA had good schools in general, then. We almost moved to Hawaii. Dad's mom lived in Hawaii. I have always had a special place in my heart for Hawaii.
Hugs to all but especially Tom and Opihikao.
Pam in CA
Pam in CA