11-30-2008, 05:09 PM
I think the point of the conversation is this:
The gun issue, either pro or con, has basically no pertinence to the conversation. The problem with crime is a social problem, not a gun problem, ans we need to address it as a social problem.
The gun issue, flatly, is this. We live in a violent society where our citizens have not taken due responsibility to deal with societal issues that create violent action. The result is that we suffer from crime, and sometimes violent crime. Personally, since society or government is unwilling at the moment to make sensible tangible moves for a better society, unfortunately, is to live like a feral human and shoot people who theaten your property. And, hopefully, if you've got a sense of community spirit, shoot people that threaten your neighbor's property and wife and kids too.
There is a place for tolerance, forgiveness, and all the rest. Really! As well, there is a place for utter intolerance of action, in the face of stuff that needs to not happen, and not ever happen again. This attitude, to stand against that sort of thing, is what is historically called virtue. Virtue, as a root latin word, means more or less virility, and in other ancient cultures means mostly integrity. It was defined in Zoroastrian culture in two terms "telling the truth, and being a proper bowman." How far we are from that kind of ethic!
Elsewise, around the world, the notion of tolerance and forgiveness is mostly lacking. Still, the notion of Virtue in the classic sense does apply. For example, if you were a Samurai in Feudal Japan, you might choose to forgive a crime--but the fact is that the forgiveness only matters because it was an elective. Likewise tolerance, if you have the power to let it slide, or not let it slide, you can claim, rightfully, a moral high ground. If you are a disposed weakling that isn't willing to embrace the human responsibility to care for your own welfare--well, what the hell is YOUR forgiveness worth? Did you have any other option?
The right to forgive and be tolerant is the exclusive prerogative of those who have the means to deny it. Hence the root of civil society. At least at our current level of evolution.
The gun issue, either pro or con, has basically no pertinence to the conversation. The problem with crime is a social problem, not a gun problem, ans we need to address it as a social problem.
The gun issue, flatly, is this. We live in a violent society where our citizens have not taken due responsibility to deal with societal issues that create violent action. The result is that we suffer from crime, and sometimes violent crime. Personally, since society or government is unwilling at the moment to make sensible tangible moves for a better society, unfortunately, is to live like a feral human and shoot people who theaten your property. And, hopefully, if you've got a sense of community spirit, shoot people that threaten your neighbor's property and wife and kids too.
There is a place for tolerance, forgiveness, and all the rest. Really! As well, there is a place for utter intolerance of action, in the face of stuff that needs to not happen, and not ever happen again. This attitude, to stand against that sort of thing, is what is historically called virtue. Virtue, as a root latin word, means more or less virility, and in other ancient cultures means mostly integrity. It was defined in Zoroastrian culture in two terms "telling the truth, and being a proper bowman." How far we are from that kind of ethic!
Elsewise, around the world, the notion of tolerance and forgiveness is mostly lacking. Still, the notion of Virtue in the classic sense does apply. For example, if you were a Samurai in Feudal Japan, you might choose to forgive a crime--but the fact is that the forgiveness only matters because it was an elective. Likewise tolerance, if you have the power to let it slide, or not let it slide, you can claim, rightfully, a moral high ground. If you are a disposed weakling that isn't willing to embrace the human responsibility to care for your own welfare--well, what the hell is YOUR forgiveness worth? Did you have any other option?
The right to forgive and be tolerant is the exclusive prerogative of those who have the means to deny it. Hence the root of civil society. At least at our current level of evolution.