12-09-2008, 08:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by KathyH
"Menehune, you asked why so few replies to this topic.
I think it says nothing about how people feel about children, and everything about the incivility and antagonism that has been popping up in the forum in the last year. Post and you get attacked and ranted at and insulted ... I'll probably be sorry I replied ..."
KathyH - Yes - I feel the same - but the issue is too serious to ignore.
This is a disturbing topic and it WILL bring forth disturbing and variant views.
quote:
Originally posted by JWFITZ
"I've got a serious case of issue fatigue and ignorance fatigue and have been holding off on this whole topic as it looks to be yet another that will go in such a manner as to solve nothing but obviously demonstrate why we've problems with child abuse, theft, corrupt business and all the rest. Which is, ill-informed self interest."
JWFITZ - having followed a LOT of your posts, I understand your fatigue symptoms. Yes - you are right about solving the issue but even here in lowly PUNA it can be a beginning. Any forum or debate is a platform for exposing and correcting ill-informed self interest - even our own.
quote:
Originally posted by JWFITZ
"Any sociologist can tell you in a heartbeat how to fix the vast majority of the child abuse problem. The solution, however, isn't sociologically acceptable, and I imagine the status quo will prevail."
JWFITZ - as has been asked - please elaborate - I am confident of your ability to make the answer palatable to PUNAWB.
As JWFITZ has shown in a few of his latest post and others in theirs - the diversity of blame is daunting. The answers even more so. Where to start?
The "church" or religion has much to account for thru the centuries. It has "prosecuted" it's beliefs to the detriment of hundreds of cultures - Hawaii especially. Yet - It is the BASIS of all human societies - even Hawaiians (Akua, Pele, Kapua, Ki'i.....). There has never been found an "atheistic" culture or society - only speculations. Religion is abusive by definition "containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs". Until, we as a "christian" society truly realize that these are MEN and WOMEN with all the frailties of human beings and NOT "deities" unto themselves - full justice for the abused will never come.
The "great social" experiment of defining "family" and each individuals rights in the family unit through legislation continues. Until - the government takes FULL responsibility for raising our children - we will have to struggle with the "old formula" and it's MANY weaknesses. A convicted abusive parent should lose ALL parenting rights - BUT can society/government pick up the slack? Abusive situations exists even in the "foster care" system set-up to protect our children.
Tribes were able to institute social change fairly easily due to it's totality of belief and normally small size. How do we as a diverse society under the umbrella of a homogenous democracy effect social change to protect our children - How about just in Hawaii?
Originally posted by KathyH
"Menehune, you asked why so few replies to this topic.
I think it says nothing about how people feel about children, and everything about the incivility and antagonism that has been popping up in the forum in the last year. Post and you get attacked and ranted at and insulted ... I'll probably be sorry I replied ..."
KathyH - Yes - I feel the same - but the issue is too serious to ignore.
This is a disturbing topic and it WILL bring forth disturbing and variant views.
quote:
Originally posted by JWFITZ
"I've got a serious case of issue fatigue and ignorance fatigue and have been holding off on this whole topic as it looks to be yet another that will go in such a manner as to solve nothing but obviously demonstrate why we've problems with child abuse, theft, corrupt business and all the rest. Which is, ill-informed self interest."
JWFITZ - having followed a LOT of your posts, I understand your fatigue symptoms. Yes - you are right about solving the issue but even here in lowly PUNA it can be a beginning. Any forum or debate is a platform for exposing and correcting ill-informed self interest - even our own.
quote:
Originally posted by JWFITZ
"Any sociologist can tell you in a heartbeat how to fix the vast majority of the child abuse problem. The solution, however, isn't sociologically acceptable, and I imagine the status quo will prevail."
JWFITZ - as has been asked - please elaborate - I am confident of your ability to make the answer palatable to PUNAWB.
As JWFITZ has shown in a few of his latest post and others in theirs - the diversity of blame is daunting. The answers even more so. Where to start?
The "church" or religion has much to account for thru the centuries. It has "prosecuted" it's beliefs to the detriment of hundreds of cultures - Hawaii especially. Yet - It is the BASIS of all human societies - even Hawaiians (Akua, Pele, Kapua, Ki'i.....). There has never been found an "atheistic" culture or society - only speculations. Religion is abusive by definition "containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs". Until, we as a "christian" society truly realize that these are MEN and WOMEN with all the frailties of human beings and NOT "deities" unto themselves - full justice for the abused will never come.
The "great social" experiment of defining "family" and each individuals rights in the family unit through legislation continues. Until - the government takes FULL responsibility for raising our children - we will have to struggle with the "old formula" and it's MANY weaknesses. A convicted abusive parent should lose ALL parenting rights - BUT can society/government pick up the slack? Abusive situations exists even in the "foster care" system set-up to protect our children.
Tribes were able to institute social change fairly easily due to it's totality of belief and normally small size. How do we as a diverse society under the umbrella of a homogenous democracy effect social change to protect our children - How about just in Hawaii?