12-09-2008, 10:55 AM
JON:
It doesn't matter which fuel. Also you continue to debate about fuel shipping, powerplant efficiencies and fossil fuel to electricity conversions, transmission line losses etc. Considering those stages is somewhat more complicated than simply using the well known and published COSTS of electricity and gasoline. I admit this method is not a dead nuts accurate measure of overall well(coal or crude in the ground) to fuel (electricity or gasoline ready to be put into your car) efficiency, but the COST of electricity and gasoline should fairly closely reflect the inherent inefficiencies in all those stages.
Having said that, JON and JWFITZ, the Mitshubishi i-Miev and its .66 liter (660cc) gasoline powered twin I previouly mentioned is the closest to real world example of well to wheels energy efficiency comparison I can think of. By using the cost of electricity and the cost of gasoline you effectively eliminate the need to do well to fuel conversion efficiency calculations. And then by calculating the cost per mile to drive each vehicle you effectively eliminate the need to do fuel to wheels conversion efficiency calculations.
So really there are only three things to question in the i-Miev and its gasoline twin comparison :
1. 55mpg claimed rating of the gas powered car
2. 1 kwh (kilowatt hour) claimed power used for a 6 mile journey.
3. Is the 1 kwh they are quoting the amount pulled off the grid or the amount drawn from the battery.
Even if you don't believe the electric car numbers. Try plugging in your own numbers. Increase power used by 15%. Decrease range by 15%. The results still heavily favor the electric car (except present day Hawaii).
If I had the two Miev's I could do my own test. All you need is a KILLAWATT power meter to do your own very accurate measurements. You could calculate energy used for both gas and electric and do a direct comparison of energy used (1 gal gas = 33kwh). And also do a cost comparison. And we could do the Volcano run and see what happens .
HERE IS THAT PREVIOUS MIEV COMPARISON POST AGAIN:
O.K. here is a real world electric car compared to its real world ICE counterpart. The Mitshubishi i-MIEV electric car is
based on the Mitsubishi Colt 660cc city car which gets 55mpg. The Electric i-MIEV goes 6 miles on 1 kwh or 55 miles on 9.1 kwh.
Therefore to go 55 miles in Hawaii each car would require:
Electric: 9.1kwh @ $.32/kwh= $2.91
ICE: 1 gal @ $2.52/gal (current Hilo gas price) = $2.52
To go 55 miles in Virginia each car would require:
Electric :9.1kwh @ $.06/kwh = $ .55
ICE: 1 gal @ $1.61/gal = $1.61
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/07/19/...iev-stats/
It doesn't matter which fuel. Also you continue to debate about fuel shipping, powerplant efficiencies and fossil fuel to electricity conversions, transmission line losses etc. Considering those stages is somewhat more complicated than simply using the well known and published COSTS of electricity and gasoline. I admit this method is not a dead nuts accurate measure of overall well(coal or crude in the ground) to fuel (electricity or gasoline ready to be put into your car) efficiency, but the COST of electricity and gasoline should fairly closely reflect the inherent inefficiencies in all those stages.
Having said that, JON and JWFITZ, the Mitshubishi i-Miev and its .66 liter (660cc) gasoline powered twin I previouly mentioned is the closest to real world example of well to wheels energy efficiency comparison I can think of. By using the cost of electricity and the cost of gasoline you effectively eliminate the need to do well to fuel conversion efficiency calculations. And then by calculating the cost per mile to drive each vehicle you effectively eliminate the need to do fuel to wheels conversion efficiency calculations.
So really there are only three things to question in the i-Miev and its gasoline twin comparison :
1. 55mpg claimed rating of the gas powered car
2. 1 kwh (kilowatt hour) claimed power used for a 6 mile journey.
3. Is the 1 kwh they are quoting the amount pulled off the grid or the amount drawn from the battery.
Even if you don't believe the electric car numbers. Try plugging in your own numbers. Increase power used by 15%. Decrease range by 15%. The results still heavily favor the electric car (except present day Hawaii).
If I had the two Miev's I could do my own test. All you need is a KILLAWATT power meter to do your own very accurate measurements. You could calculate energy used for both gas and electric and do a direct comparison of energy used (1 gal gas = 33kwh). And also do a cost comparison. And we could do the Volcano run and see what happens .
HERE IS THAT PREVIOUS MIEV COMPARISON POST AGAIN:
O.K. here is a real world electric car compared to its real world ICE counterpart. The Mitshubishi i-MIEV electric car is
based on the Mitsubishi Colt 660cc city car which gets 55mpg. The Electric i-MIEV goes 6 miles on 1 kwh or 55 miles on 9.1 kwh.
Therefore to go 55 miles in Hawaii each car would require:
Electric: 9.1kwh @ $.32/kwh= $2.91
ICE: 1 gal @ $2.52/gal (current Hilo gas price) = $2.52
To go 55 miles in Virginia each car would require:
Electric :9.1kwh @ $.06/kwh = $ .55
ICE: 1 gal @ $1.61/gal = $1.61
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/07/19/...iev-stats/