01-07-2010, 05:36 AM
808,
You said: "I suspected you were a closet authoritarian because you write like one. you do no write like a person who wants freedom. you are just ANTI,"
This is he most simple way I can put my response; I want people to be free, I just do not want people to be free to take away another person's freedom. So that is the question to myself, "Are my actions taking away from another person's freedom?"
You were so obviously trying to take me down that path so I had to let you go for it. This was my trap for you all along to exhibit your superficial understanding of anarchism.
I did not say "I" would be the authority. I did not say a leader would, that a majority would, or a company would, or a party would, or any one person would be the unquestionable authority. So how does that make me authoritarian?
The only authoritarianism that anarchy disallows is unquestionable and unchangeable authority. For example, if someone yanks a little girl out of the way of a car, that is an authoritarian act, yes? Is it justifiable? Most probably. Is it questionable? Always.
Now, if you were working in a factory, and another man owned that factory, and you went to the boss and said; "Hey, I need to go and take care of my kid today, can I get off now?" and he said; "If you leave, do not come back." What are your options? You say, "Well, I am free to get another job." Well, that depends, doesn't it? It depends if there are other jobs, it depends if your boss did not bad mouth you or not, and on and on.
Under free market capitalism, (yes your capitalism, not this mix of state socialism and state capitalism we have now,) who would be the authority? You? The boss? the monopoly? The market? You see, you are willing to bow to anyone of these as long as they throw you some scraps and tell you you are free. You are unquestioning because they are unquestionable.
You said: "society would build computers, but it takes SPECIALIZATION, and possibly i want to SELL THEM to go get some hamburgers, but if there is no economy i can only TRADE them for something... NOW THAT SUCKS,,,"
I did not say there would not be another means of exchange. I said there would be no economy. In other words there would not be a SYSTEM of production, distribution and consumption of goods and services of an economy. Because that SYSTEM, as it is now, would be the authority. Yes, anarchism has can have an economic system, but it is so different that few of us like to use that term anymore. Because the economy is secondary to life, it does not control our lives.
And if you want to see specialization under anarchism read about the Spanish anarchist revolution. They took over the factories for three years and worked it out fine.
You said; "I understand you are 'Well educated' and have 'dual degrees' good for you... but you make so sense, especially when discussing economic matters…"
Yes, It is like I am speaking calculus to someone who just learned to multiply.
You said; "I sure wont bow the authority of 'society' if i deem i want to start an economy in your 'anarchist' (if there is authority there is no anarchism) society. I think you are read in the ways of the anarcho socialist and do not realize that IS authoritarianism."
If you listen to your self you will hear the authoritarian in your head. "I don't care about you, I am going to do what ever I want!" You will have to bow to someone in any group of people. I choose the one I can freely question and freely leave. You also assumed I would make you stay in the society. No, you are free to leave. You would not need a passport to enter and you would not be hated for leaving.
And also, all anarchism is socialist.
You said; "again you also completely misunderstand human nature and motivation as well. people are not what you think they are and IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOCIETY, to groom and train the self interest out of a human child is to create a robot that a master can control."
I used to be afraid of being conditioned just like you, but I realized there is good conditioning and bad conditioning. Language is conditioning, play is conditioning, love is conditioning. You can even be conditioned to recognize and break the bonds of conditioning.
Conditioning is only as evils as its result.
People have nothing to do with society? That is the most horrifying statement I have heard in years.
You said: "I suspected you were a closet authoritarian because you write like one. you do no write like a person who wants freedom. you are just ANTI,"
This is he most simple way I can put my response; I want people to be free, I just do not want people to be free to take away another person's freedom. So that is the question to myself, "Are my actions taking away from another person's freedom?"
You were so obviously trying to take me down that path so I had to let you go for it. This was my trap for you all along to exhibit your superficial understanding of anarchism.
I did not say "I" would be the authority. I did not say a leader would, that a majority would, or a company would, or a party would, or any one person would be the unquestionable authority. So how does that make me authoritarian?
The only authoritarianism that anarchy disallows is unquestionable and unchangeable authority. For example, if someone yanks a little girl out of the way of a car, that is an authoritarian act, yes? Is it justifiable? Most probably. Is it questionable? Always.
Now, if you were working in a factory, and another man owned that factory, and you went to the boss and said; "Hey, I need to go and take care of my kid today, can I get off now?" and he said; "If you leave, do not come back." What are your options? You say, "Well, I am free to get another job." Well, that depends, doesn't it? It depends if there are other jobs, it depends if your boss did not bad mouth you or not, and on and on.
Under free market capitalism, (yes your capitalism, not this mix of state socialism and state capitalism we have now,) who would be the authority? You? The boss? the monopoly? The market? You see, you are willing to bow to anyone of these as long as they throw you some scraps and tell you you are free. You are unquestioning because they are unquestionable.
You said: "society would build computers, but it takes SPECIALIZATION, and possibly i want to SELL THEM to go get some hamburgers, but if there is no economy i can only TRADE them for something... NOW THAT SUCKS,,,"
I did not say there would not be another means of exchange. I said there would be no economy. In other words there would not be a SYSTEM of production, distribution and consumption of goods and services of an economy. Because that SYSTEM, as it is now, would be the authority. Yes, anarchism has can have an economic system, but it is so different that few of us like to use that term anymore. Because the economy is secondary to life, it does not control our lives.
And if you want to see specialization under anarchism read about the Spanish anarchist revolution. They took over the factories for three years and worked it out fine.
You said; "I understand you are 'Well educated' and have 'dual degrees' good for you... but you make so sense, especially when discussing economic matters…"
Yes, It is like I am speaking calculus to someone who just learned to multiply.
You said; "I sure wont bow the authority of 'society' if i deem i want to start an economy in your 'anarchist' (if there is authority there is no anarchism) society. I think you are read in the ways of the anarcho socialist and do not realize that IS authoritarianism."
If you listen to your self you will hear the authoritarian in your head. "I don't care about you, I am going to do what ever I want!" You will have to bow to someone in any group of people. I choose the one I can freely question and freely leave. You also assumed I would make you stay in the society. No, you are free to leave. You would not need a passport to enter and you would not be hated for leaving.
And also, all anarchism is socialist.
You said; "again you also completely misunderstand human nature and motivation as well. people are not what you think they are and IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOCIETY, to groom and train the self interest out of a human child is to create a robot that a master can control."
I used to be afraid of being conditioned just like you, but I realized there is good conditioning and bad conditioning. Language is conditioning, play is conditioning, love is conditioning. You can even be conditioned to recognize and break the bonds of conditioning.
Conditioning is only as evils as its result.
People have nothing to do with society? That is the most horrifying statement I have heard in years.