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Posted by mermaid 53 - 02/07/2015 : 11:44:46:
"I'm sure that kahunascott/hppwatchdog as our former GM may wish to comment on my post here, but I would like to only have members comment. This is not his issue since he doesn't own in HPP and we no longer employ him, and therefore is moot for him to be part of this discussion."
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I don't understand why you or anyone else should think that some of us should have the right to speak and not others. From what I understand this forum is about Puna, or at least Hawaii and people from all walks of life and various states and countries have pertinent comments and questions.
Personally, I welcome the comments of anyone familiar with the situation and anyone who might have a solution to help rid us of this reckless board.
Steve, a concerned HPP owner.
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Posted by mermaid 53 - 02/07/2015 : 11:44:46:
[/quote]I concur. We've seen years of dysfunction and/or mismanagement and in some cases, corruption. It's very disheartening. Something different needs to happen..but what exactly? Rob suggested all the subdivisions joining together in a lawsuit against the county. Who wants to spearhead this? If someone would start it, I think other subdivisions would join in bc there are many people unhappy with their roads and mgmt.
Meanwhile, would we better off hiring real professionals to handle our roads, shoulders, and signage, instead of paying employees who don't always get the job done (for various reasons), or done right? Only pay for the work that was done, no $$$ spent on road crew employees; work comp or medical insurances, fuel, equipment maintenance/purchases and so forth.
Also pay as needed for add'l work. Such as making our shoulders safer; load baring, free and clear. When the emergency access road issue started, the county WAS going to work on the shoulders off Makuu from RR up to the highway bc they knew our shoulders were unsafe. Road shoulders are necessary for car break downs/accidents, EMS situations, or bail outs. So even the county accessed immediately that our shoulders were inadequate and unsafe. Unfortunately all our previous GM's were not proactive and didn't take care of this issue all these years, even when they were aware of the problem.
Other work needed would be dead animal removal (pigs, goats, cows, chickens etc.) and trash/tire pick up. There are people who live in and out of the park who think HPP is a dump site so this is ongoing added tasks.
I am not saying get rid of the board but get rid of most/all of our road employees, the road supv and sell all our road equipment etc. If we did that, would we have enough $$$ to outsource the work? Perhaps if our roads were maintained and managed more efficiently, it could result in more peace in HPP since that is usually at the heart of our unhappiness.
I'm sure that kahunascott/hppwatchdog as our former GM may wish to comment on my post here, but I would like to only have members comment. This is not his issue since he doesn't own in HPP and we no longer employ him, and therefore is moot for him to be part of this discussion.
[/quote]
Please note the opening post for this thread, there was a direct reference to not attempting to out people's off line personalities. Your last paragraph here is exactly what I was talking about. You are not the moderator or OP, so you really aren't in a position to say who can and cannot post here.
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quote:
Originally posted by mermaid53...
Meanwhile, would we better off hiring real professionals to handle our roads, shoulders, and signage, instead of paying employees who don't always get the job done (for various reasons), or done right? Only pay for the work that was done, no $$$ spent on road crew employees; work comp or medical insurances, fuel, equipment maintenance/purchases and so forth....
I just would like to point out a fact here - the HPPOA would be paying all the things you mentioned : work comp or medical insurances, fuel, equipment maintenance/purchases and so forth.... - would still be being paid by the management company to their employees doing HPPOA work, and billed on to the HPPOA + the management fee would be on top - probably as a percentage of the labor they bill for. If they take control as a package with a set fee, they probably would bid high based on the past history. The management company wont be in this for no profit.
Okay now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
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Originally posted by Kapohocat[/i]
I just would like to point out a fact here - the HPPOA would be paying all the things you mentioned : work comp or medical insurances, fuel, equipment maintenance/purchases and so forth.... - would still be being paid by the management company to their employees doing HPPOA work, and billed on to the HPPOA + the management fee would be on top - probably as a percentage of the labor they bill for. If they take control as a package with a set fee, they probably would bid high based on the past history. The management company wont be in this for no profit.
__________________________________
I'm aware that those costs would be picked up by the contractor BUT it'd be less detailed costs and managing that HPPOA would have to contend with. It might even affect the number of ofc employees we'd need..maybe we could downsize? Maybe we'd need two separate contractors, one for roads and signage and another for maintaining the shoulders? We might save $$$ in the end if we're only paying for the work completed. Right now our employees get paid even if a shoulder wasn't maintained for a year or more w/waist high grass growing on top of the asphalt or whether a road has been maintained or not.
No shockwaverider, I'm not a moderator of this thread but I have a problem with a former GM pretending to be a member speaking about "HPP stuff", not Puna stuff as Steve stated. He has made more than one effort to try and intimidate and threaten me and/or other HPP members with defamation in regards to his lawsuit. I don't take that lightly and no other member should.
BTW kahunascott, I was told by another knowledgeable road person that we wouldn't have to remove the "RPM's" off the road before re-striping. That would be great savings to HPPOA to be able to skip those 2 steps of removal and reinstallation of the reflectors if we were to re-stripe the main drags, hopefully by a professional contractor next time so the stripes will last more than a year. To be clear if someone missed it in an earlier thread, the former GM was not responsible for the poor job we got on the striping of our main drags. The GM before him was. The RTSC suggested the reflectors to assist w/the poor visibility of the center stripe at night which did the trick. Has anyone noticed the county's beautiful striping and new reflectors from RR to the hwy on Makuu? That'd be great if all our main drags and feeder roads looked like that.
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quote:
Originally posted by mermaid53
Originally posted by Kapohocat[/i]
I just would like to point out a fact here - the HPPOA would be paying all the things you mentioned : work comp or medical insurances, fuel, equipment maintenance/purchases and so forth.... - would still be being paid by the management company to their employees doing HPPOA work, and billed on to the HPPOA + the management fee would be on top - probably as a percentage of the labor they bill for. If they take control as a package with a set fee, they probably would bid high based on the past history. The management company wont be in this for no profit.
__________________________________
I'm aware that those costs would be picked up by the contractor BUT it'd be less detailed costs and managing that HPPOA would have to contend with. It might even affect the number of ofc employees we'd need..maybe we could downsize? Maybe we'd need two separate contractors, one for roads and signage and another for maintaining the shoulders? We might save $$$ in the end if we're only paying for the work completed. Right now our employees get paid even if a shoulder wasn't maintained for a year or more w/waist high grass growing on top of the asphalt or whether a road has been maintained or not.
No shockwaverider, I'm not a moderator of this thread but I have a problem with a former GM pretending to be a member speaking about "HPP stuff", not Puna stuff as Steve stated. He has made more than one effort to try and intimidate and threaten me and/or other HPP members with defamation in regards to his lawsuit. I don't take that lightly and no other member should.
BTW kahunascott, I was told by another knowledgeable road person that we wouldn't have to remove the "RPM's" off the road before re-striping. That would be great savings to HPPOA to be able to skip those 2 steps of removal and reinstallation of the reflectors if we were to re-stripe the main drags, hopefully by a professional contractor next time so the stripes will last more than a year. To be clear if someone missed it in an earlier thread, the former GM was not responsible for the poor job we got on the striping of our main drags. The GM before him was. The RTSC suggested the reflectors to assist w/the poor visibility of the center stripe at night which did the trick. Has anyone noticed the county's beautiful striping and new reflectors from RR to the hwy on Makuu? That'd be great if all our main drags and feeder roads looked like that.
Who ever told you the RPM's don't have to be removed before striping doesn't know what they are talking about as usual. The county removed all the existing RPM's before they striped the section of Makuu., that's why it looks so good, new RPM's. I watched them put them down. Since you want to follow the county procedures that's what they do! Call the traffic department at the county office and see what they say.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kapohocat
quote:
Originally posted by mermaid53...
Meanwhile, would we better off hiring real professionals to handle our roads, shoulders, and signage, instead of paying employees who don't always get the job done (for various reasons), or done right? Only pay for the work that was done, no $$$ spent on road crew employees; work comp or medical insurances, fuel, equipment maintenance/purchases and so forth....
I just would like to point out a fact here - the HPPOA would be paying all the things you mentioned : work comp or medical insurances, fuel, equipment maintenance/purchases and so forth.... - would still be being paid by the management company to their employees doing HPPOA work, and billed on to the HPPOA + the management fee would be on top - probably as a percentage of the labor they bill for. If they take control as a package with a set fee, they probably would bid high based on the past history. The management company wont be in this for no profit.
Okay now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Good job Kat but you left out 2 more costs that a contractor would charge. Overhead and margin. You can't contract it out cheaper then doing the work in house.
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quote:
Originally posted by mermaid53
Originally posted by Kapohocat[/i]
I just would like to point out a fact here - the HPPOA would be paying all the things you mentioned : work comp or medical insurances, fuel, equipment maintenance/purchases and so forth.... - would still be being paid by the management company to their employees doing HPPOA work, and billed on to the HPPOA + the management fee would be on top - probably as a percentage of the labor they bill for. If they take control as a package with a set fee, they probably would bid high based on the past history. The management company wont be in this for no profit.
__________________________________
I'm aware that those costs would be picked up by the contractor BUT it'd be less detailed costs and managing that HPPOA would have to contend with. It might even affect the number of ofc employees we'd need..maybe we could downsize? Maybe we'd need two separate contractors, one for roads and signage and another for maintaining the shoulders? We might save $$$ in the end if we're only paying for the work completed. Right now our employees get paid even if a shoulder wasn't maintained for a year or more w/waist high grass growing on top of the asphalt or whether a road has been maintained or not.
No shockwaverider, I'm not a moderator of this thread but I have a problem with a former GM pretending to be a member speaking about "HPP stuff", not Puna stuff as Steve stated. He has made more than one effort to try and intimidate and threaten me and/or other HPP members with defamation in regards to his lawsuit. I don't take that lightly and no other member should.
BTW kahunascott, I was told by another knowledgeable road person that we wouldn't have to remove the "RPM's" off the road before re-striping. That would be great savings to HPPOA to be able to skip those 2 steps of removal and reinstallation of the reflectors if we were to re-stripe the main drags, hopefully by a professional contractor next time so the stripes will last more than a year. To be clear if someone missed it in an earlier thread, the former GM was not responsible for the poor job we got on the striping of our main drags. The GM before him was. The RTSC suggested the reflectors to assist w/the poor visibility of the center stripe at night which did the trick. (There was no $ in the budget to restripe) Has anyone noticed the county's beautiful striping and new reflectors from RR to the hwy on Makuu? That'd be great if all our main drags and feeder roads looked like that.
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Posted by mermaid 53 today
"I'm suAnyre that kahunascott/hppwatchdog as our former GM may wish to comment on my post here, but I would like to only have members comment. This is not his issue since he doesn't own in HPP and we no longer employ him, and therefore is moot for him to be part of this discussion."
Beyond the counters posted by steve 1 and shockwave rider (the OP) after this assertion, please see below what occurred under the same circumstances in the original thread - "HPP Board 2014"
Posted by mearth11 on 9/25/2014
"I would like to remind everyone that all are welcome on Punaweb to express their opinions, views and even polite rants -- as long as it is about Puna. Where a person lives is irrelevant as is what they do with their time on this beautiful planet. All of us love Puna. Some of us love HPP. Let's start with that."
Immediately followed by
Posted by Rob Tucker
"I agree.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator"
Any attempt at censorship is reprehensible and detracts seriously from the argument it is attempting to protect. It makes the argument appear unable to withstand all scrutiny and is therefore counter-productive to its intended purpose.
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Any attempt at censorship is reprehensible and detracts seriously from the argument it is attempting to protect.
Feel free to start your own web forum and write your own acceptable use policies, including vetting the account holders and making sure they only post in "authorized" topics. Rob is being more than tolerant, here.
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I think Janet was referring to Mermaid's attempt to censor the person they are convinced is the former general manager, and reminding mermaid of Rob's earlier statement that she quoted. Mermaid is the one who has been trying to micromanage other people's contributions to the discussion.
When I started this thread it was to create a place for what I called "wide open" discussion of HPP issues and I specifically asked that people not try to "out" other people's off line identities. Mermaid refused to respect that and posted yet another accusation that HPPwatchdog is kahunascott is the the former general manager of HPP. Personally I highly doubt that, from all of his post here over many years I just don't see him pretending to be someone he isn't. I never met the man myself, but that is my impression.
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