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Darl,
I was an Aviation Warrant Officer, and flew "Dust Off" and "Slicks" in my reckless youth.
To tell you the truth, Green Harvest flights bother me a lot more than airtours. They're a lot more intrusive, and fly a more dangerous profile.
At least you're trying to keep a dialog open, and that's commendable. Best of luck.
Greg
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Gee, seems to me Darl is making an appropriate effort here. He is addressing those issues he CAN address, and is doing it on behalf of his organization, not speaking for others, and therefore not watering down the greater issue. It amazes me that anyone would try to trash someone in the industry for showing some respect for public interest/need/opinion in this situation.
Yes, I have had helicopters fly low over my place and annoy me, my animals, even sling mud once... the helicopter problem is a big problem but it isn't just ONE problem. I agree we need to find a way to legislate this issue BUT Darl is being sincere and I commend him for his efforts.
Just another day in P A R A D I S E !!
I want to be the kind of woman that, when my feet
hit the floor each morning, the devil says
"Oh Crap, She's up!"
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No one is trashing the industry,It seems you people just don't like the truth.It isn't about Darl.He is making efforts,as acknowledged by evevryone,even Thunderfoot,But what is getting lost in all the nice-ities are the facts that just talking has never solved the problem,or we wouldn't still be talking about it.Facts are facts,these flights are low,people are upset.It is real no matter how light you make of the situation.It isn't if you will crash,it is when.Don't you people see it isn't about a person ,an industry or the like.It is about the facts that people are upset and talking to one pilot isn't gonna solve it.That doesn't take anything away from Darl as a person.He is a nice guy or whatever,it doesn't change the fact that there have been about 333 crashes since 1984,resulting in about 226 deaths.Let us not slap the faces of all those families effected by this industry.And all the other points brought up on the other thread.
so much....and so little time
so much....and so little time
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thanks Darl for coming on my thread for discussion.
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quote:
....Let us not slap the faces of all those families effected by this industry.And all the other points brought up on the other thread.
By having differing opinions, that doesn't mean respect for the families that have had losses is not given.
I didnt see anyone doing that at all.
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Of course nobody thinks Darl will be the salvation for this problem, but it's a start. There are people who could care less about petitions or concerts or selling jam to support a cause, they are interested in solving this problem as best it can be solved. If anyone thinks there will be a complete ban on helicopters so that they will never fly low over a residential piece of property, give me a call because your might also want to consider investing in my Puna company that converts lava to gold or gasoline depending on which price is higher.
As for the statistics on accidents, give me a break. In 2005 alone there were 38,588 fatal car accidents. Are you saying we should ban automobiles? In the last 10 years, over 12,767 children were killed in bicycle or skating related accidents. Are you saying ban all children from bikes or skates?
If you want statistics, use the number of innocent people on the ground who were killed by a falling aircraft and had nothing to do with that flight. Or the amount of damage when an aircraft makes an emergency landing on private property. Now that's hard factual evidence that goes to this issue.
What about instead of asking about the Nelson, Wanda, Billy-Bob or Uncle Frank corridors, how about a map showing recommended flight corridors that would mitigate this issue that everyone agrees upon? That shouldn’t be too hard.
Or, if you don’t want helicopters flying over or disturbing the peace of residents, parks, sacred sites, horses, or wildlife, maybe someone should provide a map showing where all these things are located. I’m sure the majority of people who wants this restriction themselves have no idea where they are. So let’s provide assistance to the pilots by showing them where they are.
While we’re at it, can someone provide Darl with the minimum altitude that would be acceptable for an overflight? Is it 1,000’, 2,000', 5,000’, or whatever is considered safe? I’m sure that would be a great aid to him instead of trying to mind read what people want.
Darl, what do you need from the residents and property owners to help you with this issue?
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Bob,no one,including the CAOA wants to ban air overflights as an absolute.I do not understand where you are getting this.There are sensitive areas we are concerned with,mentioned at our website
http://www.freewebs.com/caoahawaii/
Also,you can not compare the statistics of car crashes with aircraft.Cars are on the ground,and overflights are a unique issue.I mean you can compare statisitcs if you want,but I don't see how that helps?Night owl is passionate and is just trying to help.Also,we agree that we need to work on a map,but everything occurs in a sequence and that is on the list.As far as altitude minimums.It varies.that is why it is confusing.The FAA wants them above 1000' for urban,and 500' for rural,or it is the other way,I am dislexic.Then greenharvest is suppose to stay above 500'.So,it is confusing.My question is,if the noise,privacy and wildlife are disturbed ,then altitude becomes a mute point,especially where pilots fail to follow already existing rules?Also,Bob,when the Native American Center mailed maps with their location,because they have buffalo and ceremonies that are protected by Federal laws, to every air tour company,get this,it MADE IT WORSE!!! They have no appreciation of the American Indian Religious Freedom Act.That Act specifically mentions aircraft as disrupting ceremonies and that Federal agencies are suppose to enforce the Act.Well the FAA thinks they are immune from this Federal Law.And unless the Center wants to take them all to court,they will continue not to care that they disrupt ceremonies and scare the horses and buffalo.In fact they stopped having very sacred ceremonies until there is some relief.Any ideas for that Bob?So,unless the map has enforceability ,the pilots will not follow it.Or they would for a little while until everyone goes back to sleep.That has been the pattern over the years.Darl might be sincere,but what about everyone else? So,yeah,the map thing is in the works anyway,hoping it will see the right official some day.I have talked to many people about this subject,and lots agree,that when you call air tour companies,they are nice at first,but never comply,and it ends in them laughing at you on the phone and flying over you more as a bullying attempt to get you to shut up!!!In fact they have been RELENTLESS over me,more than normal since I started the CAOA.That pattern of behavior is troublesome and does not lead to negotiation.In fact,no air tour company or pilot wanted to talk about it until they realized that the CAOA was born.That is very telling in in itself.People have been complaining for years to those companies and to the FAA.It is very frustrating.Bob,I do appreciate your devil's advocate approach,it helps me think about stuff.Okay,getting off my soap box..............
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Seems to me Darl has made a responsible effort to open dialogue with the forum. All the typing and reading alone is a considerable effort for a busy chief pilot who also flies tours, and I echo the appreciation other contributors have expressed for his active participation in discussions of the noise problem associated with helicopter tours in the islands. I can imagine the joy he experiences when bringing up the latest rants on the monitor. The alternative (tour operations without community input and operator-community dialogue) is less likely to result in solutions that mitigate resident's concerns. Having worked with Darl in days gone by (and even been a free-loading passenger on one of his tours), I can say he's a reasonable character, and probably shouldn't be judged too harshly for his current association with the dastardly Blue Meanies. Darl has put his okole on the chopping block by participating in the conversation, and identified himself openly to all of us mostly anonymous contributors.
Though I'm a Fern Forest resident (new red roof near the Pu'u O'o end of Uluhemalu Darl) and in September and early November routinely experienced noisy plus or minus too d--- low AGL BH airshows during weather which would allow considerably higher overflights, I'm grateful that Darl has braved the hostile crowd in a way that few (if any) less courageous tour operation Chief Pilots have dared. I can think of few individuals more likely to influence the daily operations of the largest air tour operator in the islands than its chief pilot. I hope he'll continue to find the effort worth his while.
Mike H.
Edited by - seekir on 12/01/2007 14:52:30
Edited by - seekir on 12/01/2007 15:52:17
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quote:
They have no appreciation of the American Indian Religious Freedom Act.That Act specifically mentions aircraft as disrupting ceremonies and that Federal agencies are suppose to enforce the Act.
Can you tell me where in the AIRFA helicopters are prohibited from flying over ceremonies and religious sites? If you have anything that says it does, let me know as azhé'é was on the steering committee and his framed copy, signed by President Carter, doesn’t mention that.
quote:
In fact they stopped having very sacred ceremonies until there is some relief.Any ideas for that Bob?
Federal Court!
Azhé'é when on the council, often took “intruders” of sacred ceremonies to court. He got BIA on numerous occasions provided law enforcement agents when requested to assist. I have gotten FAA observers to come and take action. We even have had temporary Restricted Airspace designated when needed. You see, we have learned that fighting the system is not the way, we use the system to win changes.
In September of this year, while visiting the property, one helicopter flew over in such a manner I believed was unsafe and a nuisance. The neighbors said it's common. I used what I know to take the first step to end this issue over my property and already received a positive response from the FAA.
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aloha bob, how about sharing with us the name/number of that contact in the FAA that you are in touch with?
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