TMT construction begins Monday 15 July

[Chas]

Maybe everyone involved should listen to this. It's about an hour long listen, but REALLY good. Here is the description:

Do you ever struggle to communicate with your mom? Or feel like you and your spouse sometimes speak different languages? In the final episode of our “Mind Reading 2.0” series, we bring back one of our favorite conversations, with linguist Deborah Tannen. She shows how our conversational styles can cause unintended conflicts, and what we can do to communicate more effectively with the people in our lives.

Mind Reading 2.0: Why Conversations Go Wrong

https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/why-conversations-go-wrong/?utm_source=join1440&utm_medium=email&utm_placement=newsletter

[Rob Tucker]

Chas,

Why does this look like spam? What does this post have to do with TMT?

[HawaiiEV]

I think it was pretty terrible optics when they had the hearing at the hotel with the TMT proponents up high on a stage speaking down the the elders and other cultural practitioners on the floor. On top of the calls of backwards idiots and ignorance that had been happening for years in the background. If you want people to hear your side of a discussion it’s best to treat them as equals and not belittle them constantly behind their back. I think TMT reaped what it sewed and it Likely reflected poorly on the rest of the telescopes and Astronomy on the mountain as a whole. When driving down the street during the protests and counter protests it was hard not to notice one side was a group of almost entirely white people, and the other side was almost entirely indigenous people.

[kalakoa]

I think it was pretty terrible optics when the elders and cultural practitioners were allowed to illegally block a road.

Then I realized something very important: it doesn't matter what I, or anyone else, thinks. Hawaii is just a bunch of people doing whatever they want.

[HawaiiEV]

You did? That got international media attention and sympathy, I had people calling from the mainland asking about what was happening with those pictures the the resulting stories. Considering the the political climate it was very successful optics.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

One group has optics that will allow everyone on earth to see billions of years into the past, close to creation.  Another group is focused on a specific timeframe a few hundred years ago that may or may not have existed in the manner they describe, and benefits a small vocal minority of a minority. At times the second group seem somewhat nearsighted, unwilling to put on glasses that might allow them to see the front door of DHHL & OHA, agencies specifically created to help the Hawaiian people return to their land, & preserve their culture.  Let’s add Kamehameha Schools to the list, with their stated purpose to educate the Hawaiian people.

The TMT consortium may already have done some of those things as well DHHL, OHA, & Kam.

One group would allow both sides to peacefully and respectfully coexist on Mauna Kea.  They other? What do they want? Nothing but the road that never existed until 50 years ago?

---

An example of real water table pollution, measurable effects, and getting actual beneficial results for people from protests - - clean water.
Red Hill fuel storage on Oahu to close.

https://apnews.com/article/fuel-tank-lea...b06bc586ea

[kalakoa]

Considering the the political climate it was very successful optics.

Successful at what? Did anyone win a homestead as a result? (Maybe that one guy living in a cave on the mauna, if he's still there.)

[MyManao]

One group..

Yeah, Edge, you may be right, though off the top of my head I'll add..

One group is a unique race of people with roots in this land..

The other is a pile of metal and glass, with no roots at all..

If you want to suggest the first group's worth is somehow less than a telescope have at it.. I'll go pop some corn..

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

If you want to suggest the first group's worth is somehow less than a telescope

The exact opposite of what I wrote.
But it does provide an excellent example that demonstrates how people look for emotional outrage (see my post above) for their team’s social media bulletin board.  Then, even if they can’t find it, they concoct it out of thin air.

[Rob Tucker]

My suggestion is to give one or more of the decommissioned telescopes to native Hawaiians. Hey, why not?