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Some of you folks are unbelieveable. Whining, pissing and moaning over the stupidest things. This is America which was a huge blessing to the bankrupt and very vulnerable Hawaii who were happy to join the union at the time. No transition is perfectly smooth but this is ridiculous decades later to whine about a couple of brown skinned people getting punished for not speaking English. There is always a jerk or two in any situation, how pathetic to blow this up. Yeah the natives were so perfect that they threw people in volcanos massacred each other thanks to King Kamehameha.
Your own OHA is who screwed you over and over. That's right, your own brown skinned relatives not the caucasians or anyone with a telescope. The projection is showing the depravity of character which sustains this pathetic movement. Grow up people.
Locals have been criminally vicious to caucasians for decades, violent racial hate crimes. Now they are whining about a few individuals who may have been a little rough over learning the language.
An English teacher at Pahoa High tells the kids each year, if you can speak English clearly instead of pigeon you may make it all the way to Hilo. If you don't learn to speak the language well you'll probably make it as far as Keaau if you are lucky.
Even the Dalai Lama thinks the HI sovereignty groups are pathetic. He said as much on the front page of THT. After they told him of their "plight" in a private audience his response was he shook his head said he didn't even understand what their problem was, indicating he thought it was all very strange as if he felt put off. They live a good life unlike the vast majority of the world, get over it. What's done is done.
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I've seen these types of situations played out on a global scale and our sovereignty movement is clearly an embarrassment.
A good friend is now in Sudan working for the UN in admin of educating governments with refugees, war torn and recovering nations, a worldwide huge huge dilemma with untold suffering on a grand scale. When she was here visiting me last year we went to Uncle Roberts. She spoke to guy behind the booth pushing "the cause". Even she told me it was bizarre yet clearly self-indulgent. I told her it's just a bunch of greedy people going after federal funds under the disguise of oppressed ancestors. She laughed so hard, "yeah they look real oppressed to me now...sure."
A special thanks to all you championing the cause, we are now the laughing stock of the world. Bush did it last time and the TMT HI sovereignty folk is doing it now.
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quote:
Originally posted by dakine
And the video referenced, which is such an eye opener into how convoluted of a history haloes have concocted is here:
http://youtu.be/OOvxSxAXi20
Fascinating video dakine, thanks for posting. It seems to me that all written/verbal history is quite selective. The new Hawaiian history as written by the Hawaiians now and in the the years to come will also be quite selective I imagine. I'll certainly enjoy reading it and learning more.
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PuOO7: "No transition is perfectly smooth but this is ridiculous decades later to whine about a couple of brown skinned people getting punished for not speaking English. There is always a jerk or two in any situation, how pathetic to blow this up. "
There is a big difference between a government policy designed and adopted to disenfranchise an entire segment of the population and "a couple of people getting punished". You are either being disingenuous here or deliberately ignorant.
As long as a bunch of you keep being so dismissive of the historical roots of the deep seated anger felt by those who self identify as Hawaiian that anger will continue to manifest itself in things like the TMT protests, and random violence from punk kids with too much testosterone and anger. If we are going to all live on this island together, having a better understanding of the people who were here before we got here is essential. The people who were born and raised here should not be denigrated by relative (less than 3 generations) newcomers who keep telling them how grateful they should be for having their government overthrown, their land stolen, and their language and culture outlawed because that was just "a jerk or two." It was a government policy, not a few random people, and you don't get to tell other people that their experience doesn't matter just because you had a different experience.
I actually support the TMT, but that doesn't mean I am not going to try to understand the history that led up to this situation. Clearly the TMT is just the tipping point, and in spite of all the lies and bad science about water tables and bugs spouted by the anti-TMT crowd, the real issue is not the impact of one more telescope up there, that is just the symbol of a far wider and deeper resentment. But dismissing the modern day Hawaiians' desire for equity and justice today because of past actions by Kamehameha or the priests is like dismissing all of European history because of the barbarism of the Spanish Inquisition and death toll of the War of the Roses.
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More of the same! Not surprised to see being 'rapped on the knuckles' as equivalent to 'beatings' - same wordplay with genocide earlier. Can't stop till you get enough! Entitlement! Pay-outs! Show me the money!
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quote:
Originally posted by Punatic007
I've seen these types of situations played out on a global scale and our sovereignty movement is clearly an embarrassment.
A good friend is now in Sudan working for the UN in admin of educating governments with refugees, war torn and recovering nations, a worldwide huge huge dilemma with untold suffering on a grand scale. When she was here visiting me last year we went to Uncle Roberts. She spoke to guy behind the booth pushing "the cause". Even she told me it was bizarre yet clearly self-indulgent. I told her it's just a bunch of greedy people going after federal funds under the disguise of oppressed ancestors. She laughed so hard, "yeah they look real oppressed to me now...sure."
A special thanks to all you championing the cause, we are now the laughing stock of the world. Bush did it last time and the TMT HI sovereignty folk is doing it now.
(BBM)
"First they ignore you,
Then they laugh at you,
Then they fight you, and then
You win."
Ghandi
Aloha kakahiaka, all.
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opihikao:
"Then they fight you, and then
You win." Ghandi
What is it that you win?
Cheers,
Kirt
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quote:
Originally posted by knieft
opihikao:
"Then they fight you, and then
You win." Ghandi
What is it that you win?
Cheers,
Kirt
Aloha, knieft. Good question, I was anticipating someone asking exactly that. For me, it would be the peaceful end to the sovereignty/overthrow of our Kingdom issue, which has been going on for over 100 years. Tall order, no?
The Federal government is working on reparation of sorts, and acknowledged wrong doing (Clinton apology). Good start. The "nation within a nation" concept seems to be at the forefront.
Of course, not all will be pleased with the outcome. However, the majority can, and should be, a part of the end result.
The "win" would be resolution once and for all, so our Hawai'i can move forward and prosper. In short, peaceful existence for all of us.
JMO.
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The "win" would be resolution once and for all, so our Hawai'i can move forward and prosper.
I would like to see that happen as well.
Humans being what they are however, means some will never be satisfied. No doubt there will always remain 100 or 1000 who feel any resolution isn't enough, and they'll continue to block attempts to move forward by tossing more rocks in the road to prosperity. Only this time they will include the Hawaiian Nation in their protectors protests, for selling them out with a less than (in their estimation) perfect agreement.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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My feelings align with those of Punatic007 and rainyjim. The hand-wringing over suppression of the Hawaiian language gets to be a sideshow based on whipping up emotion over images of children being punished. Meanwhile, the foolishness of protesting the TMT goes on.
As an aside, I have read references to both the UN and the Dalai Lama commenting on the Hawaiian Sovereignty movement. Not that the internet is infallible, but when I google those topics I get nothing. All I found was a reference to David Keanu Sai and Lance Larsen pretending to have a dispute between the Kingdom of Hawaii and the US government worthy of taking before the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague, in the hopes that by getting that august office to hear their case it would confer some legitimacy on the Kingdom of Hawaii even though the original case was bulls**t. It didn't work of course. Anyway, where is evidence that either the Dalai Lama or the UN has commented on the sovereignty movement? I care because every time an argument is shown to be false the damage is worse than just losing that argument. There is a cumulative loss of credibility that hurts even legitimate arguments.
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