Access to Mauna Kea

[riversnout]

quote:

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Originally posted by kalakoa

this is part and parcel of the United States of America because 92% voted for Statehood in 1959

There are those who claim the election was improper and so the results should be invalidated... sound familiar?

"I don't like the result, clearly the process is flawed."

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or, the process WAS flawed.

The complete wording of the ballot question was: “Shall Hawaii immediately be admitted into the Union as a State?” The only answers were “Yes” and “No.” Thus, the only choices were: to become a State within the United States of America, or to remain a Territory of the United States of America. There was no choice for becoming independent of the United States or to have some other relationship with the United States. U.N. Resolution 742 in 1953 declares that one of the “factors indicative of the attainment of independence or of other separate systems of self-government,” is “freedom of choosing between several possibilities including independence.” The ballot as written did not comply with U.N. requirements and clearly prevented voters from “effectively exercising their right to self-determination.” The United States had been a part of the United Nations General Assembly in 1953, six years before the statehood vote, when it approved Resolution 742 (VIII) “Factors which Should be Taken into Account in Deciding Whether a Territory is or is Not a Territory Whose People Have Not yet Attained a Full Measure of Self-Government.”Certainly, the U.S. was aware that Resolution 742 (VIII) required the offer of “independence” as a ballot choice in the statehood vote.

[riversnout]

... 92% voted for Statehood in 1959

1 - only 35% of the electorate turned out to vote, 65% stayed away.
2 - 18% left the question blank.

[Chunkster]

The ballot as written did not comply with U.N. requirements and clearly prevented voters from “effectively exercising their right to self-determination.” The United States had been a part of the United Nations General Assembly in 1953, six years before the statehood vote, when it approved Resolution 742 (VIII)

And there you are. Take that to the XYZ Court of International Justice and see how much attention the U.S. Government pays to any resulting ruling. Zero, that's how much. The United States and just about all the major powers routinely ignore such decisions. And do you really think Hawaii would have voted for independence? Would it today? No way.

[kalakoa]

Try it this way:

The laws of the County and State as written do not comply with Hawaiian Kingdom requirements, therefore those laws are preventing the protestors from "effectively exercising their right to self-determination".

Presto! A magical exception to anything I don't feel like doing.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Presto! A magical exception

We need a programmer to write code for an immersive Hawaiian Kingdom role playing game, 3D, so realistic that whoever wants to live in the imaginary Kingdom which would exist and should exist if only some obscure law or decision or ruling had gone another way in the last 130 years, can pick up a pair of free 3D googles and the app at a location where OHA can continue buying free food for the players, and feel like they are right there in a Kingdom of their design which offers more than two choices at every level as it should be and just let them have at it and enjoy themselves. Probably cheaper in the long run.
Spoiler: everybody’s version makes them king or queen

[riversnout]

quote:

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Originally posted by Chunkster

The ballot as written did not comply with U.N. requirements and clearly prevented voters from “effectively exercising their right to self-determination.” The United States had been a part of the United Nations General Assembly in 1953, six years before the statehood vote, when it approved Resolution 742 (VIII)

And there you are. Take that to the XYZ Court of International Justice and see how much attention the U.S. Government pays to any resulting ruling. Zero, that's how much. The United States and just about all the major powers routinely ignore such decisions.

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So there you are. Might makes right. So much for Sen. Lorraine Inouye's plea to the Governor: “We cannot pick and choose. Laws must be followed, all laws, all the time."

[reni]

"And there you are. Take that to the XYZ Court of International Justice and see how much attention the U.S. Government pays to any resulting ruling. Zero, that's how much. The United States and just about all the major powers routinely ignore such decisions."

Agree Chunkster,... I've read what the U.N. IS saying now. It's not my opinion that that the U. N. agrees with the U.S. overthrow, however I Do not expect a platoon of blue helmets arriving on our Islands any time soon......but the lack of attention the U.S. Gov.t is willing to give does not make it pono either.

My bigger concern is our State Government.....well actually it is all of you. If it is in our face that an injustice has occurred to a segment of our community...is it now norm to shove it aside because it might get in the way of what we deem "progress", what we deem what is right for our economy?
Then State corruption wins.
Call me whatever you want but I believe in this

"The leaders backing TMT want to create a community with the telescope, but a community already exists. This community’s wealth isn’t measured in millions of dollars and IQs and degrees. It’s measured in the relationships of its people, the stories they share, and the deep respect they have for the islands."

https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/08/wake-u...telescope/

"I do believe culture and science and community and technology can coexist. However, it can’t be done if these decision-makers continue to ignore the Hawaiian people. They can try, but they can’t erase them."

And why should we even contemplate such an action??? They were here first, they have legal standing ,their culture contributes to the beautiful fabric of our Island home.

And why would any of you inadvertently support wrong doing of our Government?

Be forthright and find a way to achieve what you want without harming our community.

[rainyjim]

That’s so much doublespeak reni ... the TMT isn’t related to any of the wrongdoings of the past and is being held hostage for the religious beliefs of a tiny minority.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

It’s measured in the relationships of its people, the stories they share, and the deep respect they have for the islands.

"I do believe culture and science and community and technology can coexist. However, it can’t be done if these decision-makers continue to ignore the Hawaiian people.

There is respect. Nobody is ignoring the 73% of Native Hawaiian people who support the TMT. It’s the extremely loud minority who break laws and show no respect for the majority, who claim they speak for all Hawaiians when it’s clear they don’t and are more than happy to ignore the will of the people.

If the fake majority on the mountain have a mandate, why don’t they show it? All they do is talk in circles about outdated, outmoded, superseded laws with no bearing on actual reality in 2019 so no one can get a word in edgewise and ask, “excuse me, but who and how many do you actually represent?”

[PaulW]

"achieve what you want without harming our community"

How does building a telescope "harm the community"? Quite the opposite.

"They were here first". What if it turned out that they were not here first? Then the telescope is okay?