HPP Robbery

[Carey]

This is based only on going to a couple of HPP Homeowners meetings. I do not think that HPP will get gates or armed security guards based on the fact that any increase in the association fees has met a lot of opposition, and cannot imagine the residents agreeing to the annual cost (it would be in the tens of dollars/year/property, as 24/7 security for an area this large would entail a few officers), add a guarded gate & that adds to the cost.
There would be a chance of this passing if the crimes affected a majority of the voting residence (or at least the perception that it affected them). I do not think that this is the case this time - imho.

[Greg]

Armed guards or gates are overkill. Cameras and an effective neighborhood watch are a more realistic solution. Keep a log handy, and when you see a stranger, jot down a license number and description. Get a digital picture if you can. Rob is right that it's generally the same people ripping everyone off. When the license numbers start matching the robbery reports (in other neighborhoods as well) these creeps can be prosecuted. The police will help, but can't be depended on because of manpower shortages. Let the thieves know they are being watched.

[radioguy]

Sorry, I can't let this one pass because it too important to our freedoms.

Gun don't stop crime?

When you call the police, what do they bring? Guns.

A criminal armed with a knife or a gun sees two men walking down the street, one man has a gun strapped on his hip, the other man is unarmed, which man will be robbed?

A few years back, In Australia, they made gun ownership illegal and confiscated all the guns from law bidding citizens, so only the police and criminals have guns now. What happened? The crime rate soared.

In every community in the United States where citizens are allowed to carry concealed weapons, the crime rate drops.

All over the U.S. people defend their lives and property will guns, but you NEVER hear these stories in the media.

In Montana, right now, there are high school students driving around in pick up trucks with rifles and shotguns in rifle racks, in full view. There is no crime. Listen to the police frequency in these towns. Nothing!

Believe me, if you were thinking about ripping off a construction site in HPP and you knew that a owner or contractor or ANYONE could drive up with a deer rifle or shotgun in their truck, I think you would pass. Want to see the crime rate drop in HPP, just load those rifle racks up.

Let's think on a larger scale. Ever wonder why we are having so many problems in Iraq? One reason, because EVERYONE has a AK47. EVERYONE. They are shooting back at us. It makes it real hard on the the Army.

Let's think big criminals. One of the first thing Hitler did after he was elected was to collect all the guns from the German people. No one could stand up. In 1939, the Nazi's rolled over the unarmed people of Poland until they got to the ghetto's of Warsaw, where the "criminals" had guns and held the Nazi's off for a month.

Let's say you are in a army invading the U.S. You have a choice, you get the be part of the invading force going to Montana or Hawaii. You have to fight house to house. Which state are you going to choose? Well, that soldier would choose Hawaii because of the wonderful weather, and all the Aloha the completely unarmed people are going to give him as he lines them up.

Just for the record, and believe it or not, I was a long hair. I love music and art, I would never ever shoot animals and I hate the idea of people being shot. But you cannot put toothpaste back in the tube. And if it was not a gun, it would be a sword, a knife, a car, a crossbow, a spear, a rock...

Don't call the police, and don't look to the government for anything. YOU ARE THE POLICE. Let's be careful out there. Book em, Dano, seal the rock.

[Beachboy]

when people break in to your home and steal a washing machine and dryer plus a bed , this is not the work of "Ice Heads". This is the act of a desperate family in need of a few things for their home. Plus, where you gonna fence a wahing machine & dryer at? No Pawn Shop worth it's weight is gonna even touch such merchandise. No, this is absolutely the work of some "low rent criminals", not "drug addicts"!!! Drug addicts would take smaller items like computer, TV,camcorders, etc,etc...

Let's give credit where credit is due!

Oh, also my friends at the other end of 9th Ave(Makuu end) told me of a "B & E" down there last week too. The difference between the two break-ins? This one on 9th Ave. was drug addicts/kids. They stole an iPod,loose chash sitting around and a camera. They left behind a computer and other stuff worth a lot!

[Kelena]

No, Radioguy, I don't think that a proliferation of guns reduces crimes or violence. I completely support the 2nd Amendment. I think the idea behind the 2nd Amendment was to enable the citizens of this nation to retake the Government if it was ever taken over and all vestiges of a constitutional democracy (habeas corpus, public trials, necessity to apply for seearch warrants) permanently suspended. So, this is one liberal who absolutely adores the 2nd Amendment. We may need it if the government is ever taken over by emissaries of global corporations who are intent on destroying the government from within because it (meaning the people) gets in their way.

However, crime is a function of culture. It is not inversely proportionate to the number of guns. Canada=low crime, lots of guns. France,the Netherlands=low crime, few guns. Among developed nations, our crime rate is the worst despite the proliferation of guns.

I guess my point is that the idea of arming every citizen of Hawai'i seems antithetical to the relaxed spirit of the Islands. I defend the right of Hawaiians to arm themselves to the teeth. I just question the wisdom and necessity of doing so.

Gunfire is a sound more suited to the Mainland.

I think the larceny problem can be resolved in other ways, although I doubt it will.

Government has not failed us. When Government fails, it is because those we have elected have failed us ---it is not Government itself which has failed us.

Right now our Government, including that of Hawai'i has been commandered by corporatists and, in Hawai'i's case, developers, who want Government (We the people) to get the hell out of their way. That will change when we elect people who will put our priorities first: 1) Preserving this incredible land, 2) Reducing crime, 3) Providing adequate health care for all citizens, 4) Reducing our dependence on off-island resources.

I find the notion of taking the law into our own hands anarchic. It plays right into the hands of the corporatists who want the CORPORATIONS (Wackenhut, Blackwater) to provide security......to those who can afford it.

Anti-government propaganda is promulgated by global corporations with no allegiance to America, who want the government (you) to step out of the way so they can feed you poisoned food from China.

Larceny should be addressed locally by the police. If they don't comply, we should elect representatives who will MAKE them comply.

[radioguy]

Oh, I wish I had know that I was not buying the washer, drier and bed for me. I would have got the econo model. Silly me.

Is there anythng else I should know about my stuff? It's not really my stuff? Wow, Hawaii is really different. I guess the police already know that, along with the "elected representatives."

And I was just about to say the contract for security for the new gated HPP goes to Blackwater. They have lots of experience in Iraq, and will mix it up at a drop of a hat. They will get my bed back.

[Greg]

There are a lot of idiots out there radio guy. You sure you want them all to have guns? Besides; give an idiot a gun and what do you think the robbers are gonna take? My apologies to anyone out there who may really be an idiot.

[Kelena]

Oh, wait.....I thought we were supporting our TROOPS in Iraq. But, as you point out, there is now one Blackwater mercenary for every American soldier in Iraq.

So apparently we WEREN'T "funding our troops". We are funding a private mercenary army. I prefer my wars to be fought by the American military, and communities to be policed by the police, and not corporate mercenaries whose loyalties are not to the people, but to whoever employs them.

Puna needs to demand better policing --by the police.

[Beachboy]

not just the Big Island, but the Hawaiian Islands on a whole have terrible police dept.,prison system, etc,etc..

[missydog1]

Recalling the legal class I took on torts -- the first case in the course is the one where a property owner rigs a boobytrap to stop trespassing vandals ... the vandal was injured, sued and won.

The legal points made were that it is not lawful to use deadly force to protect your property. Only to protect your person, and only at a level that is necessary to repel the specific threat.

Maybe the laws in Montana are different, but that's my understanding of common law. Basically, there's a hierarchy of personal rights, and the right to life and sound limbs trumps the right to private property.

In traditional Polynesian society, the concept of private property is not nearly as strong as in Western society. If someone has more than enough and someone else has a need, "borrowing" is tolerated.

While Hawai'i is the USA, I think some of the older notions of communal sharing persist. My son's friends who grew up in Puna tell him that if they were out and about, and got hungry, and there was a house, they would go in and help themselves to some lunch. Any house, not talking about their friends' houses where they might have a standing invite.

As for the police, they seem to have no concept of "investigating." Even when Josh Holloway (LOST actor) got robbed at gunpoint on Oahu, did they track the assailant and catch him? No, they nabbed him when he was chased down in a car for some other offense, and after they collared him, they realized he was the guy and could proclaim that they solved the case. They seem to catch people who are dumb enough to pull off the crime right in front of a cop, and that's about it. Maybe I'm overly cynical?

I loathe the ice problem and am in no way condoning the druggy thievery or any thievery, but you asked if there's a different culture here ... in some ways, yes.