For sale: Another telescope on Mauna Kea

[PaulW]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23202054

Can the observatory here help in the SETI search?

[TomK]

Paul - wrong frequency. The SETI stuff works in the radio, JCMT is a submillimeter observatory. Submillimeter wavelengths are a really bad option for any civilisation to use for communications since water molecules absorb at those wavelengths. In any case, SETI is bad science and would never get through a science peer-review process. Although it's a great idea and I'm happy SETI gets funded privately, the actual experiment is not scientific. A negative result tells you nothing (obviously a positive result tells you a lot!). You want an experiment to give you an answer one way or the other.

Pahoated - a little confused why you say the TMT and ALMA (the submillimeter array in the Atacma desert) will have connectivity and a long baseline. That implies interferometry which would be difficult given the TMT and ALMA are two different beasts. The former will be an optical/infrared telescope, the latter is a submillimeter/millimeter facility - difficult to do interferometry using two different wavelengths. On the other hand, I do agree that the TMT will likely offer more opportunities to locally educated folk, but we're still talking years away. 2018 is the planned starting date, there's an appeal underway, funding isn't certain yet and during startup operations I wouldn't expect there to be too many opportunities for recent graduates, but might be wrong. 2020-2022 might be more realistic.

Tom
http://apacificview.blogspot.com/

[TomK]

I should also add that the observatories on MK employ a large number of local people. The R&D jobs are very much in the minority at each observatory and even those tend to be advertised around the world, i.e., they are not targeted at specific countries so local talent will get hired. Most of the support positions such as technicians, some engineers, telescope operators, admin and HR are local folk who will lose their jobs if an observatory closes, and these jobs tend to be better paid than equivalent positions in other industries here.

Tom
http://apacificview.blogspot.com/

[Guest]

Does not look like we will be needing SETI any more if the former Canadian Minister of Defense is to believed. In fact, I guess we would not need any telescopes, or at least not those built with human limitations. Crazy to hear something like this from someone of such authority.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=namPqUB9BpQ

[Aaron S]

The BLNR's decision to grant the TMT a conservation district use permit is certainly not the end game by any stretch of the imagination. The Mauna Kea anti-astronomy groups were able to reverse the Keck Outrigger CDUP back in 2006. There is a chance history may repeat itself since these same groups are attempting to invalidate the TMT's CDUP.

http://kahea.org/blog/mauna-kea-hui-file...-of-appeal
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn97...dmy3G0YCSo

[Oregon Woodsmoke]

There are anti-astronomy groups?

A telescope seems so non-offensive. No pollution and they normally look quite handsome. But maybe they will attract the attention of those predatory space pirates who will steal all of our water?

[TomK]

Pahoated - it's your use of the word "baseline" that's confusing. That implies interferometry. The study you quote does not use interferometry. Astronomers have combined data from different telescopes working at different wavelengths for decades. Maybe you didn't know that, but it might be an idea not to use the word "baseline" because that has a very specific meaning when talking about different telescopes.

Tom
http://apacificview.blogspot.com/

[TomK]

quote:

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Baseline meaning separation. Very standard terminology in triangulation.

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Yes, it is, except astronomical telescopes don't use a few thousand miles for "triangulation" and instead use the orbit of the earth for parallax observations which is probably what you're thinking of. For instance, the study you quote does not use triangulation, it uses high-resolution spectroscopy data to measure small changes in wavelength of spectral lines caused by the Doppler effect. As for combining data from observatories observing at different wavelengths, the distance between them is irrelevant, it's the data taken in different wavelength regimes which is crucial and as I said has been going on for decades.

Tom
http://apacificview.blogspot.com/

[DaVinci]

Anti-astronomy. So, given the greek roots: anti (against, opposed to) - astr (star) nomia (law, familiarly, "the study of") ... One is forced to conclude that you are opposed to the study of stars. I find that odd. Religious belief should not extend to placing parts of the planet off limits. I hear they are doing that in Jerusalem, with not such a pleasant outcome, thus far. There must be a way that we can respect the religious beliefs of the kanaka maoli without returning to the days when Galileo was forced to recant solid science because a religious group didn't like what he was saying.

Tom. Thanks for reminding our fellow readers that the distance between Hawaii and Chile is far less than the diameter of Earth's heliocentric orbit (186 million miles) and that measuring the parallax achieved by snapping a picture and waiting 6 months is how most astronomers prefer to do business. And thank you for giving me a tour of UKIRT a couple years ago. It remains one of the highlights of my time spent on this island. It pains me that the austerity measures implemented by the UK have led to the possible cessation of good science. There is no profit in science... except for the fact that everything we do and everything we are today has been touched by it. Keep the faith, my friend. You have allies.....

[dmbwest]

Hi Tom,

I'm really jealous of your 'job' .... Up there.

Just wondering ...

http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/video-aud...-Asteroids

you guys up there amused by this plebian stuff ?

Same question sent to buds and relative @ NASA.

aloha,
pog