Posts: 1,406
Threads: 25
Joined: Jun 2013
petadams asks;
"why should we suspect that breakdown does not continue to occur subsurface?"
___________________________________________________________________
We should suspect that because of the porosity of the rock under us; the chemicals don't sit, breaking down, but flow pretty much directly to the sea (Reefs).
I personally can smell/sense the presence of glyphosate in the water at First Bay, Pohoiki fairly often. This is an area where fresh water enters the sea.
You mention the studies focusing on "surface run off", yet we are in a unique environment where most of our precipitation travels under the surface; Where it meets our water supply and ultimately our diminishing Reef system.
Posts: 526
Threads: 11
Joined: Oct 2006
"We should suspect that because of the porosity of the rock under us; the chemicals don't sit, breaking down, but flow pretty much directly to the sea (Reefs)"
Why do you think bacteria are any different? They don't "sit" either and exist in amazingly inhospitable (to humans) environments. Don't think our fractured underground rock and warm temperatures are much of a challenge.
"I personally can smell/sense the presence of glyphosate in the water at First Bay, Pohoiki fairly often"
Let's point out that Puna receives on the order of hundreds of billions of gallons of rainfall water every year. The dilution factor for glyphosate is left as an exercise for the student.
Posts: 1,406
Threads: 25
Joined: Jun 2013
I don't think bacteria is any different. Why do you assume I do? Anything from cattle dung to motor oil to well injected chemicals introduced to our terrestrial ecosystem is ocean bound. Does introducing more make it better?
I'm aware of dilution. I also know that thousands of gallons of concentrated Glyphosate is unloaded at the Hawaii docks every month. It's not a study that tells me it's reaching the ocean, it's experience with the chemical and seeing the continued decline in our reef system.
Posts: 436
Threads: 42
Joined: Feb 2009
Use dish SOAP like "Dawn" not a detergent like "Tide". Dish soap is much gentler on your plants. Detergents can burn the leaves.
-Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".
-Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".
Posts: 735
Threads: 20
Joined: May 2006
quote:
Originally posted by Cagary
Use dish SOAP like "Dawn" not a detergent like "Tide". Dish soap is much gentler on your plants. Detergents can burn the leaves.
-Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".
If you're using it to with glyphosate herbicide to kill stubborn weeds, burning the leaves is even better. I've noticed this smelly vine taking over during the last few years. I think the locals call it Pilau Maile. Glyphosate has little effect on it because the leaves have a waxy coating and it just runs off. Adding a detergent might help it cling more.
Posts: 526
Threads: 11
Joined: Oct 2006
I would be careful on what plants you use Dawn. Dawn is indeed a detergent and is a common choice in the nursery and horticultural trades as a surfactant for its strength. For instance, we were warned by a Plant-It manager not to use Dawn as a horticultural soap for aphids on citrus as it tends to strip the leaves of their waxy surface. Dawn is also touted as the choice for wildlife cleaning in oil spills. Most glyphosate formulations contain a surfactant optimized for getting the glyphosate through the outer layers of weed leaves and into the plant system. However other herbicides often don't have surfactants added and benefit from adding some Dawn. In our experience glyphosate has little effect on maile pilau, but triclopyr (e.g. Remedy) works well with the added surfactant.
Posts: 1,930
Threads: 71
Joined: Jun 2012
quote:
Originally posted by snorkle
It remains viable while peculating down to the water table in our porous Island geology. This means it ends up on our Reefs.
Percolating? Actually, UHH is finding the geology standard model for Hawaii island needs major revision. The standard model with a shallow water table is only a partial picture. There are massive implications from these findings, and not in a negative way. This island is far richer than we have imagined. As for reefs, volcanic activity destroys reefs. There are underwater volcanoes that are killing large sections of reef. However, new life collects around the vents, eventually forming more reefs. People keep talking about smells down Pohoiki. Volcanic activity creates many odors. There are open vents down in Pohoiki. The natural warm ponds are sitting on top of vents.
If people really want to make a point of loving this island so much, they should take a little time to learn about it rather than impose their belief system on it.
"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
Posts: 1,406
Threads: 25
Joined: Jun 2013
Sometimes the smell of Round up is just the smell of round up. I've sprayed lots of it.
I agree that the geology model needs revision.
Is it possible that under CM Zendo Kerns latest BILL 25 a person (your neighbor) who gets a "minor" agricultural tourism permit can sell Round up and other heinous poisonous pesticides and herbicides? The language of the bill states that anyone with a minor agricultural tourism permit can sell...
"Such items include, but are not limited to, all agricultural and horticultural products."
Posts: 1,930
Threads: 71
Joined: Jun 2012
The point was that glyphosate isn't all that effective and not as toxic as being portrayed. Paraquat is a lot more effective, doesn't break down and has multiple proven toxic effects on birth. Haven't done it yet but just going to get a propane burner to keep my yard clear.
"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
