Economic impact of astronomy in Hawaii

[TomK]

HOTPE,

I expect Maui's numbers have changed significantly in the last year or two, as will the Big Island's. Remember the report is for 2012. Since then, Pan-Starrs has started (http://pan-starrs.ifa.hawaii.edu/public/) and a major solar telescope is being built (http://dkist.nso.edu/).

Although I doubt it has a massive impact on finance (but probably a significant one), Haleakala is not high enough to require a base at lower levels and rarely needs road maintenance. MK does.

Small factors I know, but they add up. But along with many facilities being military on Maui, I'm not too surprised that the funding for astronomy on Maui is under-reported.

[TomK]

Pahoated,

"The observatories here do bring in a considerable amount of money and it mostly goes to UHH that turns it around to man, maintain, and upgrade the observatories."

What possesses you to continually make things up? Your claim is utter nonsense. UHH does not man, maintain and upgrade the observatories. There is something seriously wrong with you.

[TomK]

"The observatories are here because of the location as data gathering stations for supercomputer processing in Honolulu."

It has nothing to do with Mauna Kea being one of the best astronomical sites on the planet? Incidentally, our wide-field data are processed in the UK, not UH, and like most other observatories, our other data are processed in-house.

Jeez, Ted, I hope no one employed you as a spokesperson in the past. I can't imagine what damage you would have done.

[pahoated]

UHH has the master lease for the whole mountain top. They are your landlord. Never said UHH was the sole financier. They are just one of the various partners that pay salaries, buy and maintain equipment, and give you a living. You would not be here if it were not for UHH, Victorian Tom. Lockmart is only there because they are getting government money from some channel, and University of Arizona gets their money from the government.

The fact is astronomy does not pay for itself, it has always required patrons. Why that should rattle your cage so much is a mystery. That money that is coming in to the local economy is mostly government money, through universities, government contractors, state government, foreign governments. A small percentage is being privately financed. The two largest sources of revenue for this island are tourism and federal funding.

The money that astronomy brings to the local economy is mostly tax dollars, from federal and foreign governments. The point is with the observatories saying they can't fill their jobs with local people means they continue their practice of trying to hire mainland professionals that usually end up being long term visitors, not residents. It means the tax dollars that come in usually go back to the mainland, for products and services not available here. Fly-in crews and mainland contractors spend a little money here but most of it goes to the mainland. Nothing to bust a gut over, it is the nature of the beast. The astronomy work is priceless, yet that article is trying to place a value on it as justification. UH Manoa is also under fiscal pressure to show value added.

"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"

[lavalava]

Uhhh Teddy Man, WHO CARES where the money comes from? Without the nerds(said with love) cupping their hands into the funding stream, none would ever splash down onto our little island economy. Grateful much?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Something like 70% of the East Hawaii economy is government funded. County, State, Federal, military, etc. Very little of the total is for astronomy. Try driving Highway 130 on a Monday afternoon when it's a work day. Now try driving it on a Monday holiday, when all of those government employees have the day off. There's no one on the road. You can hit the merge at 55 mph, because there's nobody to merge with.

If you want to complain about government funding, astronomy is way down the list.

Haleakala ... rarely needs road maintenance. MK does.
TomK - You're right about the roads. Haleakala is a national park, so the observatories at the summit only need to maintain their driveways at the end of the public highway.

[TomK]

I don't think Ted understands that UHH has very little to do with the observatories on Mauna Kea. His other straw man arguments are simply not worth the effort answering. If he wants to believe what he writes, that's fine, but it is nearly all nonsense.

[TomK]

HOTPE,

"TomK - You're right about the roads. Haleakala is a national park, so the observatories at the summit only need to maintain their driveways at the end of the public highway."

That didn't even occur to me, but you're right. The other thing is that Haleakala is about 4000 feet lower than Mauna Kea and although it does get snow from time to time, it doesn't get the kind of snowfall MK gets nor do they have to deal with maintaining dirt roads which is a real issue on MK.

[PunaMauka2]

ha... after not checking in here for awhile it is apparent the one most constant is Pahoated's peculiar propensity for simply making stuff up. trying to imagine myself sitting at a keyboard manufacturing such a steady stream of ornate fiction. a psychoanalyst could have a field day.