The History of the overthrow told by Hawaiians

[Bullwinkle]

The victors always write the history books. Manifest destiny a poor excuse for taking lands and undermining cultures.

[Frank]

@ seekir..."Kalakaua's desire to emulate English royalty with all of it's ostentatious and expensive paraphernalia had placed the nation in a precarious position"

..."a monarchy depends on the quality of the monarch of the moment"

common hard work'in kanaka...his life was What? again at this time in history

[Mtviewdude]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bullwinkle

The victors always write the history books. Manifest destiny a poor excuse for taking lands and undermining cultures.

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That's how it has always worked since the beginning of mankind. It's not manifest destiny it's freaking human history. Look at about every major civilization from the dawn of man(and woman).

The last wave of Polynesians killed off those who first inhabited the lands, Kamehameha killed off the rival chiefs to unify the Hawaiian Islands. Whenever a society had something good, another came along and conquered it.

The only reason we can sit and moan about it now is we are the biggest kid on the block, and that nuclear weapons makes war extremely costly between the major powers.

[pahoated]

The irony of the overthrow was that Queen Liliuokalani was a devout christian and she couldn't believe her haole christian "friends" would turn on her and the Hawaiian people.

The Kamehameha dynasty of Hawaii ended with Queen Lili`uokalani in 1893. At that time the "Missionary Party" desired annexation to the United States, though most of the Hawaiian people held allegiance to their queen. To Lili`uokalani 's detriment, she naively dismissed the Missionary's grown children as a petty minority and assumed they could not succeed.

One of her letters after being put under house arrest. She believed to the end that christian "goodness" would see the overthrow was wrong and would reinstate the christian monarchy:

"Oh honest Americans, as Christians hear me for my downtrodden people!" she wrote. "Do not covet the little vineyard of Naboth's, so far from your shores, lest the punishment of Ahab fall upon you, if not in your day, in that of your children, for 'be not deceived, God is not mocked.' The people to whom your fathers told of the living God, and taught to call "Father," and whom the sons now seek to despoil and destroy, are crying aloud to Him in their time of trouble; and He will keep His promise, and will listen to the voices of His Hawaiian children lamenting for their homes."

"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Kamehameha killed off the rival chiefs to unify the Hawaiian Islands

When I lived on Maui, the descendents of the Maui chief displaced by Kamehameha still had words to say about that illegal military action and occupation. There was always a round of letters to the editor when something was named after Kamehameha rather than Chief Kalanikapule.

[Opihikaobob]

quote:

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Originally posted by LaurelJ

On second thought is it possible it isn't even necessarily that the dominate culture isn't more successful, could be that they just have more brawn and a more conquering perhaps even evil spirit. As a few examples of this, look to the Russian Empire, or Germany during WW!! or even the Ottoman Empire. It wasn't that they were that successful it was just that they had a more waring, conquering spirit. [:I]

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=loFDn94oZJ0 (War by Bob Marly)
There's that word again (Spirit) , which is closely related to the word Sacred. However
many here don't believe in Spirit, hence their position related this thread.
Soon they will , and I disagree about your villains in ww2. Remember "History is written by the conquerors , and is therefore the"agreed upon lie".

[Bullwinkle]

It is also wise to remember that the "unification" by Kamehameha was accomplished with the help of a few Brit canons he plundered, a pretty one sided blood bath is what really happened - nothing noble about it.

Without the arms (and the careless Britts) he would just have been another minor chieftain.

[seekir]

It seems to me that Hawaiians, and I suppose polynesians in general, have uncommon respect for na koa. Perhaps this warrior worship is a dominant trait that arose from some special island life survival requirement for battle prowess? Just consider the remarkable percentage of polynesians who have succeeded in the NFL compared to other ethnicities enjoying far larger populations. In any case, I've also wondered about the popular admiration for Kamehameha's exploits and person amongst modern Hawaiians. A cursory examination of his life suggests that he fostered and instigated terrible violence and destruction upon the people of the islands during the era of his rule. Likewise Kalakaua's despoiling of the sandalwood and exhaustion of the resources of the nation to finance rather frivolous luxuries like the construction of Iolani palace (and its electric lighting system—rumored to have cost as much as the palace structure itself) are overlooked in favor of his revival of hula and other more palatable aspects of his rule. I wonder what the islands would be like now if Kalakaua had forsaken the trappings of royalty and instead focused his efforts on securing the future welfare of the kanaka maoli.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Perhaps this warrior worship is a dominant trait that arose from some special island life survival requirement for battle prowess?

Sociopolitical researchers divide human political structures into four types:

Band
Tribe
Chiefdom
State

Any group that operates as a Tribe or Chiefdom will put an emphasis on the skill and leadership of the warrior. Even in our society, the State, we have vestiges of the Tribal / Chiefdom system as seen in our sports heroes and decorated war veterans.

[PunaMauka2]

"It seems to me that Hawaiians, and I suppose polynesians in general, have uncommon respect for na koa. Perhaps this warrior worship is a dominant trait that arose from some special island life survival requirement for battle prowess? Just consider the remarkable percentage of polynesians who have succeeded in the NFL compared to other ethnicities enjoying far larger populations."

seekir, you attributing your theory to genetics or culture? Either way, behavioral profiling with such a broad ethnic brush doesn't seem very useful, at best. Following your line of reasoning, one would also have to switch out the warrior thing for one of those less flattering stereotypes.