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One man's stab at explaining Hawaiian History.
#11
I think Mr Gonzales's reference to the difficult nature of life for the Maka'ainana and Kauwa in ancient times is particularly relevant. When I was a teenager the current mayor of Oahu County reminded me that ordinary Hawaiians could be executed for crimes such as casting a shadow on the body of an Ali'i or positioning themselves with their heads held in such a manner that they were elevated above that of a chief. The method of execution was reportedly strangulation or crushing the offender's head with a stone. It's not clear to me whether these extreme (at least in the view of modern Americans) punishments were carried out routinely, but the idea that this sort of thing occurred at all seems horrific. The fact that engravings made by Europeans depicting such executions from the era exist suggests that they weren't uncommon. It certainly must have been extremely precarious to offend Ali'i in those times.

I also appreciate Gonzales' reminder that the Ali'i (not Europeans/Americans) were instrumental in initiating the shedding of the Kapu system and other beliefs after Kamehameha's death. As I recall, Kamehameha's wife Ka'ahumanu deliberately sat down and ate (pork?) with male companions shortly after the lonely one's demise. She was probably clever to wait and assert her feminine determination to break the rules after the old guy was gone.

As I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum however, there are several difficulties modern Hawaiians face which are a direct result of the presence of foreigners that could be rectified. The main problems are economic of course. Though the Great Mahele was initiated by Ali'i, ordinary Hawaiians had never lived in a world where lands were controlled by anyone but the chiefs, and the notion that they needed to "own" available lands probably was so novel that many simply didn't realize it was essential to make their own claims. On the other hand, most who arrived here from elsewhere clearly understood the value of land and proceeded to accumulate control over valuable real estate with a voracity that must have been bewildering to Hawaiians who were consequently at the mercy of those who understood real estate transaction as an economic force. Secondly, though Hawaiians in the 1800's had a literacy rate in their own language which was reputedly higher than English literacy on the U.S. mainland, I think few Hawaiians had a tradition of English literacy. Since education in the U.S. and modern Hawaii is based on reading and comprehending English texts, Hawaiians (and many other ethnicities here from countries without English language skills) have lagged behind the rest of the population due to the persistent drag that a history of limited English literacy exerts upon their advancement in the community.

Things like the decimation of the island population due to the introduction of disease, exploitation of the general ignorance of real estate value amongst Hawaiians of the era, foreigner's disregard and disdain for Hawaiian language and culture, and the more recent overthrow of the monarchy and rather devious theft of autonomous Hawaiian government throw a long shadow. Expressions of dissatisfaction and protests are a natural result of the difficulties of the marginalized. The high crime and incarceration rates, health issues, homelessness, and perception of injustice and disadvantage Gonzales refers to are real enough in the Hawaiian community. As Gonzales suggests, such issues may make many receptive to voices which claim the power to rectify injustice but lack real credibility.

I'm not convinced that a return to ancient religious notions and practices is a great path for Hawaiians, but it seems clear that many people in the islands are feeling hopeless in the face of the challenges they face trying to make a living and support their families. Conflict is probably an inevitable result of this sort of struggle. Gonzales points out that misinformation and hysteria make potential confrontation an even greater threat. Averting this kind of strife should be a focus of community effort in my view.
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#12
quote by seekir:

I'm not convinced that a return to ancient religious notions and practices is a great path for Hawaiians, but it seems clear that many people in the islands are feeling hopeless in the face of the challenges they face trying to make a living and support their families."
______________________________________________________________________

Instead of coping an apologist attitude and blaming the white skinned man due to the actions of our multi-racial ancestors, their kapu systems and governments, the antidote is clearly E X P O S U R E to the outside world for mind expansion, not relying on daily marijuana smoking for it.

This is a remote island, making a living and supporting your family here is not a "right"(ok well to some/maybe most who generationally abuse the welfare and EBT system). Humans have feet not roots. In the 21st century a good parent wants their kids to explore the world if not their own country. The US mainland has some incredibly beautiful areas and great educational facilities, art and culture exhibits and much more. Our federal government has enough issues as it is economically not to be taxed by irresponsible groups with their hands out. Shame. They need to grow up and stop blaming where the money is and instead look in the mirror.

This is what my Hawaiian friends say, but hey they are positive folk who contribute to society.
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#13
Posted by Punatic007
quote:
...making a living and supporting your family here is not a "right"

Not sure what you're getting at here. Most would consider equal opportunity to be a right, and simple access to economic justice a critical ingredient in the formula of a stable society.
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#14
quote:
Originally posted by seekir

Posted by Punatic007
quote:
...making a living and supporting your family here is not a "right"

Not sure what you're getting at here. Most would consider equal opportunity to be a right, and simple access to economic justice a critical ingredient in the formula of a stable society.

Economic Justice is getting paid what you agreed to when you made the "deal" whether it be for a car, a boat, and hour of labor or whatever. Other than that, it is a meaningless non-term, IMHO.

It is up to you have prepare yourself for "the deal" so you can bargain from a position of strength. Unfortunately, way too many make precious little preps, but expect far more than their "offerings" are worth.

However, if you are saying everyone should have unfettered access to the various and sundry markets that make up our economy, I am with you on that. However, way too many opportunities are taken by people because of who they are related to, not their qualifications, and that fact taints all it touches.
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#15
quote:
Originally posted by terracore

I found it very difficult to read with the font against a dark purple background. Maybe Punaweb will be easier:

"Ho`okahi Pu`uwai
(with one heart)

Aloha,

Usually, I mind my own business and don’t say anything about politics, religion, “Hawaiian kine stuff”, etc. even if it bugs the heck out of me. I have only so many hours in a day and if I do have any free time, I spend it with my family. I am not an “activist”! I am just another Hawaiian trying......

...... King Kamehameha was alive today, he would support the telescopes on Mauna Kea and Haleakala! After all, Hawaiians at one time, were the best "naked eye" astronomers in the world! Also, King Kamehameha, conquered these islands by embracing "modern" technology: using muskets and cannon under the supervision of English sailors, Davis & Young!

HERE'S A READING LIST:

* Ancient History of the Hawaiian People to the Times of Kamehameha I - Abraham Fornander
* Hawaii's Story by Hawaii's Queen - Queen Liliuokalani
* Captive Paradise: A History of Hawaii - James L. Haley
* Shoal of Time: A History of the Hawaiian Islands - Gavan Daws
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Hawaii
* http://www.academia.edu/1034367/When_Did...tle_Hawaii

eta: format

Well and honorably said. Thank you for the effort and thought you expended to craft your post, and I am total-agreement with virtually all of it.
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#16
Posted by Sugarloaf:
quote:
Economic Justice is getting paid what you agreed to when you made the "deal" whether it be for a car, a boat, and hour of labor or whatever...

You may be correct if said laborer has options from which to select that include a job that pays sufficiently to purchase necessities such as food and shelter. Many of the homeless here reputedly have full-time jobs, or even multiple jobs.

To be clear, I found nothing in Mr. Gonzales' webpage that I disagree with.
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#17
Economic Justice is getting paid what you agreed to when you made the "deal"

In theory, yes. In practice, "they" simply alter the deal.
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#18

Then that is not Justice, it is inJustice. A deal is a deal.
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#19
quote:
Originally posted by seekir

Posted by Sugarloaf:
quote:
Economic Justice is getting paid what you agreed to when you made the "deal" whether it be for a car, a boat, and hour of labor or whatever...

You may be correct if said laborer has options from which to select that include a job that pays sufficiently to purchase necessities such as food and shelter. Many of the homeless here reputedly have full-time jobs, or even multiple jobs.

To be clear, I found nothing in Mr. Gonzales' webpage that I disagree with.

If the market doesn't offer sufficient wages, the choices are upgrade skills, or move on.
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#20
@punatic007..."not relying on daily marijuana smoking for it"

big dam assumption me thinks...haw'n kids are practicing the education they GET...cam schools, oha, dhhl educate your childern
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