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teachers union wants more/higher taxes
#11
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker

Our teachers have a tough boat to row and could use better pay. Better pay might attract or keep better teachers. It may just be a local rumor but I have heard that the state DOE has more managers than they have teachers. Anyone know if that is true?


Times like this I am embarrassed (more than usual) to be a teacher. The union takes some $50/month from my check (whether I actually join or not) and spends the majority on buildings, salaries, and "bribes" to politicians (most of whom I would never vote for).

And here we have a tax on the relative poor (renters) by way of the evil rich who own rental properties.

The state wide monstrosity that is the Hawaii DOE is notoriously top heavy. I personally wouldn't give the DOE a cent more than they get presently, quite the opposite. Reform would include a purge of the administration above principals, which, of course will never happen.

I am among a tiny tiny minority of teachers who favor vouchers. Indeed, I have never met another teacher who is pro-vouchers. Pros and cons to be sure but the "status quo" (even and especially with the federal government getting involved--NCLB and whatever its called now) has not produced quality.

Public schools are an entitlement. And a strange one, compared to foods stamps, social security, etc. The latter programs distribute a certain monthly lump sum to the poor and aged based on particular formulas (how poor per child, and work history respectively), but the sums can be spent according to the recipients' wishes. But parents (and non-parents' taxes) must send children to the government school monopoly, or pay extra for a private school. Food stamp users aren't required to spend at government run groceries--maybe they should be so required but that is another issue.

A revolution would be at hand if parents got an annual lump sum "school stamp" and went shopping for an education value for their children. "Private" schools would blossom with specialties limited only by the schools ability to attract students. Likely websites more sophisticated than Yelp would arise to share information and keep corruption at some sort of bay. Parents have real power with their voucher.

Keonepoko doesn't disappear. Parents would sign up for a particular teacher and that teacher would rent the classroom, playcourt/library/etc. time as desired. Perhaps even counselors, PE teacher, etc time as desired as part of their budget. This could be run via a principal or teacher led. Neighborhood schools would likely proliferate (yes I know, zoning and NIMBY and all that...).

Charter schools already have a very watered down version of this and operate at less than half the per pupil capita as the regular public schools.

I could go on and on, but the worst con I could see is putting up with white supremacist schools (or Hawaiian sovereignty schools here Wink). And there's the idea that public schools provide some sort of common core of Americana or something which would be lost.

What most people know about voucher programs (as an idea really, since there has never been a widespread implementation that I know of) is a variation of the anti-voucher propaganda put out by teachers' unions with their fat pockets from mandatory dues.

A true voucher revolution would have a helluva transition, and lead to a whole new set of problems/challenges, but to my mind it is the only real way that anything new and better could happen in the compulsory education system the US deems valuable.

In short, if society feels that education is a worthwhile entitlement, it still uses tax payer money (likely much much less) to enable students the highest quality education of their choice. The difference is that they are not only forced to "shop" only at the government school that sucks on so many levels. Heck keep government schools around and see if they can attract enough quality teachers to keep their rolls up.

There are many reasonable arguments to be had for and against such ideas. And likely they are all theoretical since the government is not gonna give up control of the amounts of money currently dedicated to education without enough strings to fill a piano. But its fun to think about.

In any case, you can know that there is one off-kilter teacher that doesn't want to throw more money at education as a solution. It's like flooding the campground to put out a campfire--only in reverse!

Cheers,
Kirt
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#12
quote:
Originally posted by Chas

quote:
Originally posted by bystander

...Every other state has independent schools funded by property taxes in each locality. This is the most equitable system. The better schools would tend to be in the richer neighborhoods then.


That's the most equitable????!!!!
Wow


Go to any other state and that's way it is. Equitable is not the same as equal. In this case it means fair. You get what you pay for. Instead of the entire state having the same crappy schools, the people willing to pay for it are getting better schools. Anyway that's the way it was explained to me in an econ class I took.
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#13
Sorry teachers, Hawaii has decided it likes trains more.

The well has run dry.
Puna: Our roosters crow first
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#14
The state wide monstrosity that is the Hawaii DOE is notoriously top heavy.

Same with universities, and healthcare, and just about everything else: there are layers and layers of administration, all of which became "necessary" to deal with the ever-increasing burden of requirements imposed by government and/or created by lawsuits.

At some point the administrativa takes on a life of its own, even though it has nothing to do with the original purpose.

The extra "Hawaii overhead" just exacerbates the problem. Teachers leave because they can't afford to live here. Raising taxes to subsidize a specific profession is worse than a zero-sum game.

Reform would include a purge of the administration

When I'm elected Governor, I'll do that during my first 100 days in office.
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#15
According to table 11 at:

http://www2.census.gov/govs/school/13f33pub.pdf

(1 meaning spends them most, 51 meaning spends the least)

Hawaii is the 19th largest spender per pupil from all sources. The table breaks it down as to how much is spent on instruction (#19) and how much of THAT is spent on employee salaries (#20) benefits (#24) and school administration (#11).

States Ranked According to Relation of Public Elementary-Secondary School System Finance Amounts to $1,000 Personal Income: Hawaii = #39.

Revenue of the 100 Largest Public Elementary-Secondary School Systems in the United States by Enrollment: Hawaii = #9.

Per Pupil Amounts for Current Spending of the 100 Largest Public Elementary-Secondary School Systems in the United States by Enrollment: Hawaii = #9.
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#16
how much of THAT is spent on employee salaries (#20)

Adjusted for local cost of living?
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#17
No, and not adjusted for actual hours worked either (varies a lot by state/districts/etc).
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#18
quote:
Originally posted by terracore

According to table 11 at:

http://www2.census.gov/govs/school/13f33pub.pdf

(1 meaning spends them most, 51 meaning spends the least)

Hawaii is the 19th largest spender per pupil from all sources. The table breaks it down as to how much is spent on instruction (#19) and how much of THAT is spent on employee salaries (#20) benefits (#24) and school administration (#11).

States Ranked According to Relation of Public Elementary-Secondary School System Finance Amounts to $1,000 Personal Income: Hawaii = #39.

Revenue of the 100 Largest Public Elementary-Secondary School Systems in the United States by Enrollment: Hawaii = #9.

Per Pupil Amounts for Current Spending of the 100 Largest Public Elementary-Secondary School Systems in the United States by Enrollment: Hawaii = #9.


PERFECT!

We already spend more than most other states and yet we have results that are among the lowest -Throwing money at a problem does not solve it. New teacher salaries are low but they very rapidly rise. New teachers do quit quite often. However, look at how many "old" teachers there are, who make pretty decent money. I don't see junk cars in the teacher parking lots.
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#19
Spend more than most states, but also have a higher cost of living.

I think the issue is spending money to maintain staff levels, not for improving results. Even with high quality teachers the output may not change much, given the social situation many island kids find themselves in.
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#20
If I recall, Hawaii also has the shortest school year in number of classroom days, negotiated of course, by the union. Maybe teacher salary could be compared better to other states if that short school year was considered.
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