Relocating to Puna: Conflicted Conciousness

[PaulW]

That's one of the great things about this place, so many different people with so many different views and ideas.
Welcome! Many newcomers don't last but even they leave an experience wiser.

[MarkP]

Tyler65:

My hapa Chinese/Japanese SIL tells me I sound like a white supremacist when I talk like this but why do you focus on white people? Why no concern over how Hawaiians of Polynesian ancestry deal with their guilt over their own dealings? There is some speculation that there were people here before the Polynesians arrived. Even if not, they had a brutal caste system that served to divide people. Just as Lincoln freed the slaves, Kamehameha made the Law of the Splintered Paddle which basically said Ali'i couldn't go around killing commoners indiscriminately. Great that the law was made. Not great that the law was needed in the first place. As for native Americans, puleeeze, don't get me started. Custer was not able to enlist Apache scouts to hunt down Comanches because of his charisma. The Comanches earned the hatred of most people they came in contact with and were in fact rather proud of that. Their first targets were other Native Americans. The Haudenosaunee whose League of 5 nations was the inspiration for the Confederacy, colonized lesser tribes and took tribute. Early stories told by the Spanish describe a few hundred Spaniards conquering thousands of Aztecs but leave out the part where the Spaniards capitalized on the bitter hatred different groups had for the Aztecs, again because the Aztecs gave them cause.

There are people who live to find fault, often because they don't have much else going on in their lives. I apologize before hand for being judgmental but most of your sentiments just play into that.

When someone gets in my face with a sense of entitlement it takes the edge off for me to imagine them getting their asses kicked around the block a couple of times by the ancient Hawaiians who enforced Kapu in the good old days. Basically all of us have no freaking idea what it was really like back then. All we can do is use our heads to speculate. If space in your head is taken up with fantasy you are at a disadvantage and are actually less likely to have an accurate picture of how things were.

I am a nerdy white boy who despite having gone fishing in remote parts all over these islands for 27 years now, am still alive. Go figure.

ETA: Not confederacy. I meant the original 13 colonies or rather the organization of them into the United States.

ETA: I should have said Tahitians instead of Polynesians as the likely first settlers of Hawaii, from the Marquesas islands, were also Polynesians.

[glassnumbers]

Uhhhhh, the Law of the Splintered Paddle? Kanawai Mamalahoe? I think you have that wrong, braddah. The law, "Let every elderly person, woman and child lie by the roadside in safety," is enshrined in the state constitution, Article 9, Section 10, and has become a model for modern human rights law regarding the treatment of civilians and other non-combatants during times of war.

http://www.hawaii.edu/uhelp/files/LawOfT...Paddle.pdf

From the link "It was actually Kamehameha's way of saying "you have every right to defend yourself against ali'l like myself and others who may abuse their power."


(also what's up with the forum software? It keeps screwing up every time I try to put the little _ thing above the letters.)

[leilanidude]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tyler65

I've lived primarily without money the last few years in an urban environment...I feel fairly confident of living a similar way, but more on the land and doing more work/trade, value exchanges(skill offerings, barter/trade etc), plugging into community, focusing on the essentials as I have grown on this path of service.

I will have some savings as well if I do end up coming over.

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Just what this island needs - more people who don't pay taxes. []

[ironyak]

Originally posted by leilanidude
Just what this island needs - more people who don't pay taxes. []


Don't worry, you're good for it. Harry will be around to collect shortly

There is an extensive intentional / alternative / woofer community, expecially in lower Puna, but haven't seen related posting here lately. PW mostly focuses now on the nuts and bolts issues: Taxes, roads great and not so much, and how to go for a walk without being eaten alive (and whether the dogs have rights to do so based on your skin color - HOTPE, the other white meat

As someone else brought up, given the history of conquest and colonization, where would you live free from a conflicted conscious? Why is Hawaii and the sovereignity movement (which is also prominant in lower Puna) any more an issue than living in the Pacific Northwest, or the desert southwest, or Central America, Australia, etc.? Honestly curious on your thoughts.

[glassnumbers]

guy Ironyak, thank you for posting this.

As for brutal colonization, that's in the past. The people who did the brutalizing are long dead, and you will find whites, of both liberal and conservative persuasions, who would be more than happy for Hawai'i to become it's own independent, sovereign nation. Do ****ty white man laws continue to harm native Hawai'ians, yes, absolutely, that's not even a question. However, Do not feel guilt for that which you don't have the power to change. If your uncle was a supreme court judge or something, then yeah, guilt might be in order.

Concentrating on the past is a doctrine of failure because there is literally no way to undo what was done. The only successful route is to look to the future and what can be done to gain more funds for the state of Hawai'i, and how to allocate it more efficiently to those who need it the most.


Aloha

[Linchpin]

Perpetuating the same ol' crap.
White this, white that.
Mean English-American maybe? Because I'm from Ireland, local friend from Green Sands is from Romania, and his neighbor (who just moved back) is from Russia. We are white, (whiter than white) and I don't recall anything our countries' governments did that people keep claiming was "the white man's fault".
I often think American's actually do believe that they are the only country in the world sometimes.

[ironyak]

Originally posted by Linchpin
Mean English-American maybe? Because I'm from Ireland, local friend from Green Sands is from Romania, and his neighbor (who just moved back) is from Russia. We are white, (whiter than white) and I don't recall anything our countries' governments did that people keep claiming was "the white man's fault".

Not to go too far a field, but I doubt the Caribbean slaves traded by Belfast plantation owners like Waddell Cunningham, or the Tartar groups in Romania, or the Yakuts of Siberia, would agree. Land ownership results from conquest at some point in history - it's all been fought over whether it's now called Ireland, Romania, Russia, Portland, or Hawaii - same o' crap (so to say).

[ericlp]

Being in Hawaii All my life (practically) Good luck with it...

I know a guy that, his dad is white and married a Hawaiian gal, So half white and half hawaiian... but he looks totally white, Hardly can tell at all he is half Hawaiian, I am sure he get's it just as bad as anyone else...... Maybe if you pick up pigeon... I use to speak it, I can kinda turn it on or off. But, I hated to speak it, so, that's not really for me. So, no matter where you go, sometimes one just has to brush that off and move on. No big deal really.

As for finding a spot that is going to lesson the impact? No way......There isn't one. But, just find a lot that flows with you... Talk lot's of story with your neighbors... Get a feel for the vibe in the hood. You will know if the subdivision is for you pretty quickly.

Good Luck and most importantly have a positive outlook, smile more, relax, and go with the flow....live aloha!

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Not to go too far a field... Land ownership results from conquest at some point in history - it's all been fought over

And not to go too far back in time, but even Cain (the first tiller of crops) killed Abel (the first shepherd) over a perceived discourtesy. Their parents were more agreeable, sharing an apple and the like, but even that didn't work out very well in the long run.

Humanity seems to find their way to struggle and conflict no matter what they choose to do.

Anyone care to disagree?

You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.