quote:
Originally posted by mgeary
... Show me a peer-reviewed study, Damon, which says that marijuana improves driving skills and reduces reaction times....
"...emerging scientific research indicates that cannabis actually has far less impact on the psychomotor skills needed for driving than alcohol does, and is seldom a causal factor in automobile accidents. The following documents provide a comprehensive overview of the scientific evidence regarding marijuana's impact on psychomotor skills and driving."
Some studies are reported here
And this study was also reported:
It concluded:
The foremost impression one gains from reviewing the literature is that no clear relationship has ever been demonstrated between marijuana smoking and either seriously impaired driving performance or the risk of accident involvement.
Please note... I haven't really viewed either of these links more then a few seconds. [  ]
I played the game...
Mgeary... now it's your turn...
Can you show me a scientific study that proves smoking pakalolo has caused ANY crashes here in Hawaii? [ ]
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Lower your expectations and be ready for anything.
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Sure, Damon, I'll play that game any day. See ya all of your NORML studies (not peer reviewed) and check this out:
Here is a study from the British Medical Journal.
(No fair limiting the studies to Hawaii - there's no difference in the way pakalolo affects human beings whether they're in Puna or in Great Britain, besides, you didn't limit yourself to Hawaii only data.)
The one study you cited from Australia cast doubt as to the relationship between the roadside sobriety tests and the skills needed to drive a car. I'm just looking for ways to avoid children's brains being splattered around in the inside of Mom's car because of a stoned driver.
This discussion is in good spirits, for me, anyway, because there's no sense losing aloha over an intellectual discussion. I've smoked a lot of weed back in the day, Damon, and there's just no way you're going to convince me cannabinoids increase your thinking skills, your hand-eye coordination, your reaction times, etc, which are exactly the skills it takes to keep you from killing somebody else out on the highway.
Here's an excerpt from a DOJ website with citations to peer reviewed papers: The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has found that marijuana significantly impairs one’s ability to safely operate a motor vehicle. According to its report, "[e]pidemiology data from road traffic arrests and fatalities indicate that after alcohol, marijuana is the most frequently detected psychoactive substance among driving populations." Problems reported include: decreased car handling performance, inability to maintain headway, impaired time and distance estimation, increased reaction times, sleepiness, lack of motor coordination, and impaired sustained vigilance.
I'd like to play the game some more, Damon, and maybe I will tomorrow, but it's late for me here in California. Smoking weed doesn't make you a safer driver. That's only common sense, duh.
Aloha! ;-)
Aloha! ;-)
quote:
Originally posted by mgeary
....
I'd like to play the game some more, Damon, and maybe I will tomorrow, but it's late for me here in California. Smoking weed doesn't make you a safer driver. That's only common sense, duh....
Like I said originally... for some people it does.
Those that use it medicinally may have a different say.
True Story...I know a guy with "gout"... it gets so painful for him that he can barely walk... less yet attempt to push a Brake Pedal or Gas Pedal.
Let the guy smoke some herb... his pain has gone away temporarily and he is at least able to get to the market and back.
Another true story here on the Big Island...(j/k but a possible scenario and I wouldn't doubt that it could be true)
A lady had chemotherapy and was puking all over the place from her treatments.... She smoked some pakalolo and started feeling better and was able to drive to the store for munchies....
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Lower your expectations and be ready for anything.
quote:
Originally posted by mgeary
....See ya all of your NORML studies (not peer reviewed) and check this out:
Here is a study from the British Medical Journal....
So I checked out the link more thoroughly....
And it states:
The researchers estimated that at least 2.5 percent of the 10,748 fatal crashes studied were directly caused by the use of marijuana.
If Marijuana stays in your system for close to 30 days after you have smoked it, how can this study verify when the marijuana was smoked and how it directly was related to a fatal crash. Just because you have Marijuana in your system at the time of death... hell you could have smoked that marijuana 3 weeks before.
2.5 percent of 10,748 people is not a large percentage... and I still question the validity of the testing.
Like I said... marijuana can stay in your blood system much longer then the actual effects can.
Listen MGeary... I'm not doubting that smoking weed impairs your driving.... I'm just saying that for some people... smoking weed actually Allows them to drive. [ ]
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Lower your expectations and be ready for anything.
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quote:
Originally posted by Damon
I know lot's of Stoned drivers that drive better when they are stoned then when they are sober.
Well, actually, Damon, that's NOT what you're saying. Previously, in your quote, you said that marijuana improves the driving skills of "lots" of people that you know. Funny how when I put up some facts, which you can question them all you like but they're peer reviewed meaning that people lots smarter than you and me have already raised questions, your premise changes from arguing that marijuana makes you a safer, better driver to the medicinal benefits of weed.
You're preaching to the choir for legalizing or decriminializing marijuana use. I support that. Just don't drive stoned, don't steal my stuff to support your habit, and don't sell your weed to my kid.
And finally, 2.5% of 10,000 (in France in a two year period) is 250 people, Damon. It's all well and good to have an intellectual discussion about this, but each and every one of those 250 people had ohana. One person killed by a drunk/stoned/impaired driver is a tragedy and a personal crisis to the ohana of that person. Try to imagine 250 separate funerals, and all the grief that goes with each one.
I pray nobody in your ohana every gets smeared in a crash with an impaired driver, Damon, and to all you Punawebbers, too. Now I'm off to work for the day.
Aloha! ;-)
Aloha! ;-)
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quote:
DUI only becomes a felony in Hawaii if it involves vehicular homicide, and I doubt the cops would come a running if someone reported some one swerving on the road.
It's a class C Felony on 4th in 10 years. If they are close and not responding to another call they may come running. Make the call.
quote:
Are you sure the person was drunk? I know lot's of Stoned drivers that drive better when they are stoned then when they are sober.
Who cares if they are drunk or stoned, they are impaired. If they are so deep into substance abuse that they function better impaired, then they shouldn't be allowed to own a car, much less drive one. nortonh described someone who was impaired on something, not someone who used a medecinal amount of medecine of some sort. If the driver needs an amount that causes impairment, then he should no longer have a license.
quote:
Whatever you do... don't attempt to have contact with this driver or you may end up in a situation like Dirk faced.
Definitely a judgement call that must be made at that time and with serious thought to the consequences. I would like to think I would have the courage to step up to the plate if the situation demanded it. I am a citizen or this country.
quote:
Because the police can't do squat if they aren't in the area.
Correct, but they might be in the area and there's no harm in calling.
quote:
How do you prove what family member was driving the car, how can an officer prove that the offender wasn't drinking the second he got home (before the officer arrived)...etc?
That's not your job to worry about it. If he makes it home without hurting someone, then he got away that time. If on the outside chance he has run down a pedestrian, then your call might be the one that breaks the case. Again, there's no harm in the call.
quote:
The police are already over burdened by things as it is. If they were to come running every time someone was pissed off about someone's problem with other drivers... then our police would never be able to work on real crimes.
I assure you that if there is a more urgent call, they will prioritise and respond to the more urgent call. They know how to do that. Again, there is no harm in making the call.
quote:
Many people in Hawaii are using Platewire to report bad drivers.
As best that I can tell, that's just a bitch site and serves no real purpose.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Posts: 806
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Joined: May 2006
Stoners?
Mahalo Damon for writing the truth.
I was suprised by the insertion of the "S" word, ("stoner"), in this context. I see it inappropriately inserted in the US and Canadian mainstream press often and it's starting to resemble slurs used to deride blacks, Latinos, ect.
Ultimately, follow the money/power and it all makes sense...
Damon, I haven't followed your links yet, but am very familiar with current research. Will give them a read.
Have you seen the "Run From The Cure" video on youtube? It's an hour long Canadian Broadcast Corp. production. Are you familiar with Daniel Hospicker's investigative work and website?
Both totally mindlblowing and each redefine/expand understanding of our current situation in so many areas.
Great responses all around.
It's the drunks...
Posts: 325
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Joined: Oct 2007
Let me soften my approach a little, Damon. In the example you gave about the man with gout, I understand the idea that he is better able to live his life with the aid of a painkiller like pakalolo. If that's all you're saying, then I agree and apologize for any misinterpretation or over-reaction. If you're implying that that person is a safer, better driver because he's stoned, then that's where we disagree, and I'll argue the facts any time.
And also, please understand my perspective: I do have first-hand experience with getting stoned (I'd even describe myself as a Stoner in my teens and twenties), but I quit that about 25 years ago, and now I work in a job where I actually do see death and destruction on a daily basis as the result of impaired drivers. Most of them are drunk, but some of them are stoned, too.
Until you try to console a mother on the side of the road whose child has just been killed in front of her eyes by an impaired driver, then you just haven't walked a mile in my shoes. Or her shoes.
Mahalo for this discussion.
Aloha! ;-)
Aloha! ;-)
Posts: 2,653
Threads: 42
Joined: Sep 2006
quote:
I was suprised by the insertion of the "S" word, ("stoner"), in this context. I see it inappropriately inserted in the US and Canadian mainstream press often and it's starting to resemble slurs used to deride blacks, Latinos, ect.
I must have missed it because I don't remember seeing the word "stoner" used. "Stoned" was used. Besides, I thought (maybe incorrectly) the term "stoner" referred to a type of substance abuser. Someone who was stoned most of the time. They shouldn't drive. I did not think the term applied to the occasional pot user any more than the term "alcoholic" applies to the occasional drinker. I could be wrong.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
quote:
Originally posted by mgeary
.... In the example you gave about the man with gout, I understand the idea that he is better able to live his life with the aid of a painkiller like pakalolo. If that's all you're saying, then I agree and apologize for any misinterpretation or over-reaction. If you're implying that that person is a safer, better driver because he's stoned, then that's where we disagree, and I'll argue the facts any time....
That's pretty much what I'm saying...
However, the guy with the gout problem... CAN'T drive unless he has medicated himself because the pain is just too much.
In this instance... I'm saying he is a better driver when stoned, simply because of the fact that when he is not stoned.... he can't control his right foot which controls both the gas pedal and the brakes.
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Lower your expectations and be ready for anything.
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