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Endangered Hawaiian Hawk may be De-Listed
#11
Glen,

First I dont believe DDT is all that bad if used in a moderate and correct fashion: http://www.junkscience.com/ddtfaq.html

Next, look at all the good DU does for waterfowl and wetlands from Wiki: "Ducks Unlimited was founded by waterfowl hunters intent on preserving their recreational interests, and remains to this day a pro-hunting organization. Some other environmental groups and anti-hunting lobbyists have consequently had a historically difficult relationship with DU. These groups accuse DU of simply breeding ducks to be shot. Supporters counter that many species live in the habitat restored and protected by DU dollars, not just game birds, and DU continues to complete many more successful conservation projects than do its detractors. Furthermore, supporters contend it would be unrealistic to expect that the money for wetland conservation would be forthcoming if waterfowl had no recreational value to hunters."

This is what I mean by individuals or groups placing interests to resolve a problem. I think people should solve problems without govt help. The oil crisis will not be solved by the govt, but by individuals/groups/business. I do believe there are things the govt should do for the common good but those were pretty much laid out a long time ago by the founding fathers. Look how many park projects and small town solutions are done by people that care about their environment(ie people and places around them).

Oh the moon shot had much more to do with national defense, capitalism/economics and large amounts profits for a nation from a national science project.

Maybe if we "care" enough about hawaii's native raptors we can donate time and money to find a solution from the civilan side, instead of having the govt throw money at it.

Jared
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#12
Glen; Agree, thats why I said basically a republican. Ever since the Right wing took over the republican party, I've had to pick and choose who I vote for. I find more and more that democrats hold more of my views than the RR of the republican party. Hence the removal of enviromental science from the endangered species act and the insertion of corporate greed. I'm sure if one looks there is some developer somewhere who wants to build in a area where the IO hawk is holding him up. So a quick word to King George and lo and behold the hawk is no longer threatened. It would be impossible to put into words the absolute CONTEMPT in which I hold almost all of our so called elected officials.

dick wilson
dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"
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#13
Has anyone actually read the proposal?

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocumentDetail&o=09000064806b1605

Where does the idea come from that it's a non-scientific decision?

I like hawks as much as anyone but if doesn't meet the endangered criteria, then it's not endangered!
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#14
Ya, I've read it, and to my way of thinking no increase in population, does not mean it's not endangered. Like I said whats the rush.

dick wilson
dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"
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#15
Well, the proposal states near the beginning that the justification for de-listing is that "range wide" populations have been stable for 20 years. But as Cat pointed out - this island is only part of the 'Io's historic range. Although I kinda doubt any efforts will be made to reintroduce them to Moloka'i or Kaua'i, it does put the matter in a different perspective.

As Carey wisely mentioned, another big issue is the low genetic diversity of the remaining 'Io population. With pathogens moving ever more rapidly around the planet, we cannot rule out the effects of unforeseen epidemics.

Quote from the proposal:
The IRWG (2001, p. 3) identified disease as a potential factor that might lead to a decline in the size of the Hawaiian hawk population by reducing future reproduction and survival. In their report (IRWG 2001, p. 3) they state: β€˜β€˜[d]isease could have a serious negative impact on β€˜io as the population does not appear to be separated into disjunct subpopulations that could more easily evade an outbreak.

further:

Emergent diseases, such as West Nile virus, have the potential to influence Hawaiian hawk viability in the future. West Nile virus, which is primarily transmitted by infected mosquitoes, has been reported in all of the 48 conterminous United States and is potentially fatal to many species of birds, including members of the genus Buteo (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) 2005, 2007). Hawaii and Alaska are the only two States that have reported no occurrences of West Nile virus to date (State of Hawaii 2006; CDC 2007).

I personally can't see any real benefits to de-listing the 'Io.
Carey, what does it mean to have "critical habitat resources"? Are you saying that if one species is de-listed, then there's more money/time to help another, more needy species?

I understand the sad reality of gov.t funding for conservation efforts and I know saving species is a pretty low priority these days. But if the message is there's only room for "so many" on the list, this is seriously messed up. I can see allocating the most money for species and habitat that are the most at risk, or the most able to recover - but how much time and energy does it really take to leave a creature on the list? Something about that smells.

Perhaps getting closer to the stink, the proposal also states that a petition to de-list the 'Io was delivered to USFWS by the National Wilderness Institute, a group that has been called "anti-environmental" activists, headed up by large land developers and polititians. Check em' out:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?tit..._Institute

http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/orgfactsheet.php?id=75

http://www.nndb.com/org/530/000103221/

At the end of the day, I'm not convinced that being on the endangered species list really assures all that much protection by itself. It's the habitat we need to focus on preserving, but that is less sexy and has a way of pissing off those who would profit from its exploitation.

Nevertheless, I beleive it's worth fighting to keep our friend the 'Io on the list. Thanks to all for your support and thoughtful replies.

Aloha,
Mitzi





Uluhe Design
Native Landscape Design
uluhedesign@yahoo.com
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#16
Lack of current funding to study most of the species on the protected species list is one of the stated reasons why our current president has not signed on many (any?) species. The resources to study the critical habitat are fairly extensive & very few species have been funded.

Just to give an idea of the scope: even the effort placed on the Hawaiian Hawk, with many research studies, inc. student thesis studies over a long period of time (including quite a few pricy DNA studies), fairly small total range to study that is somewhat easy to access... yet there still are many unanswered questions....

The 'Io is one of the funded species that has had more than the ave. resources directed to it's study... & the fact that most species are not funded, have no university/student interest in studying & no volunteer groups calling for the study... & you can see how even protected species are still becoming extinct at a fairly alarming rate... and we really have no idea what they contributed to their environment, what they would have needed to succeed & what/how other species interacted with the species.... This is all part of the study that is technically REQUIRED for every species on the protected list, but has been only done on a very limited select few of the protected species...


There is no way to know if delisting the 'Io will absolutely allow more funds for another species (with a limited pool of funds, that is the ideal, but the funds can easily change from year to year & species to species...).... it is up to all of the agencies & volunteer groups & students that have worked on the critical habitat studies & initiatives that have helped the 'Io.... if they embrace other species with the same determination, yes, if not, no....
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#17

After following the link provided on the NWI, one only has to look at its advisory board to guess its true intentions. The board appears to be packed full of right wing anti-environment christians....Donald Hodel is a scum sucking bottom feeder and well, everyone is familiar with Larry Craig.
My guess is that there is a planned development or some sort of military operation that needs this bird delisted in order to move forward. There is no way a species with such a genetically limited founding group, so to speak, should be allowed to be removed from the Endangered Species List. And what about its very restricted range?? This is another fine example of the Corporate and right-wing Christian run-Republican party and its' agenda to do away with anything that blocks its "progress".
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#18
Andy, tell us how you really feel.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
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#19
Sorry....I get way too emotional over environmental issues....I will keep my trap shut from now on!

Andy[Smile]
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#20
Exactly right Andy; Although calling them scum sucking bottom dwellers is an insult to catfish everywhere.[Wink]

dick wilson
dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"
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