How to Slow Growth

[Kapohocat]

What about a tax incentive? For every year you own your house as your full time primary residence - you get a 25% credit of real property taxes on your Hawaii personal tax return.

You dont live in it - you pay the full boat. Would help little old ladies out and young families along with the middle class who actually live here full time

Prop 13 like in Cali isn't a bad idea either if the caveat is "primary residence".

[Rob Tucker]

I'm not 100% positive but I think there are tax incentives in place.

Homeowner's exemption, over 65 exemption and others.

I think that increases in property tax are limited to something like 3% per year.
So if yuo livein your house a long time you will be paying less than new arrivals or
people who sell often.

Someone correct me if I am wrong....

[jdirgo]

Increases in assessed value for owner-occupied homes is limited to 3% per year. You are correct, Rob.

John Dirgo, R, ABR, e-PRO
Aloha Coast Realty, LLC
808-987-9243 cell
http://www.alohacoastrealty.com

[Seeb]

I grew up in a house my father built on my grandfathers farm

[Kapohocat]

We grew up in a small house my parents bought with $700 DOWN!! ha ha They added a den and master bedroom in the first two years. Ten years later added a mother in law quarters for my grandmother with a kitchen/sitting room/bedroom/bath. The house went from 900 SF to about 2700 SF today. Value went from $19K in 1966 to $795K in 2007. (and now that M&D live in Hawaii, my cousin's family and their 80+ yo parents live there.)

M&D with that house are still under Prop 13 though.

[gtill]

I belive our property rates here are well under what they are on the mainland.

The guys who complain about that surely wouldn't pay subdivision fees for roads and any improvment. Consequently, such attitudes will do more to slow growth than any tax increase. With main roads paved but shaky, and crossroads resembling Baja 500, they won't be impressed. And HPP is the flagship!

But with economy slipping nationwide, even a hint of a recession will whack tourism. The result here will be people who work in kona won't need to travel anymore. And what few guests hilo does have and supporting businesses will dry up, leaving the county and state with less revenue. So now vehicle registration will spike, gas prices will go higher electric bills etc, but not tax rates, they happen after no one can buy gas or use their lights. That's socialism, share the wealth or lack of it.

[rbbyrd]

In a way, I think the following quote is relevant:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, November 11, 1755

Bob Orts hit the nail on the head with the statement: "It amazes me how so many people want government out of their lives yet are willing give government exceptional authority so long as it applies to the other person."

While the intent of the idea of this thread is admirable....nah, I'll stop that sentence there.

What amazes me is that someone would have the marbles to take it upon themselves to, or suggest the government, dictate the conditions of the use or disposal of my private property, as far as purchase or sale is concerned. Where would it stop? Perhaps an additional tax on any houses with more than 1200sf? Maybe an additional $1000 tax for every tree removed from any property?

California initiatives? No thanks. While it is not my intent to be offensive; California is so screwed up that people have been leaving in droves over the past decade or so. And some of those want to bring along the same ideas/attitudes that made them leave California to begin with. California initiatives (virus)? No thank you very much.

Bob Orts' point was made very well recently here in Texas. The TX government decided it needed some quick money in the state treasury. What to do, what to do? Here ya go...an additional $1 tax on every pack of cigarettes. Passed and implemented last September. Stop here for a moment and reexamine your opinion on this tax. Objectively.

Being a smoker, I'm naturally opposed to this tax. But not for just the reason that I have to pay it. It is an unfair tax targeted at a specific group that has ZERO chance of mounting a meaningful opposition. None. Who's the next target?

In discussions I participated in concerning this tax, I suggested that maybe a more equitable alternative would be to increase the gasoline tax by a nickel. Like a lot of you are thinking right this moment; most were of the opinion that I should have my head ripped off.

I don't have the answer or solution to the growth issue. But it is my opinion that giving the gov't additional taxing authority ain't it. It's only a matter of time before they come for you, because it was made so easy for them to do so. And when that time comes, I'd love to be able to help out. But, alas, my resources have been restricted. By $1 a pack.

In case anyone is wondering, I do own property on Big Island. Leilani Estates. Vacant lot. I live on the mainland. And frankly, it's nobody's business whether or not I sell that property, when, to whom, or for how much.

RB Byrd
http://www.dejavuduband.com
Flower Mound, TX

[Kapohocat]

How to slow growth? Simple...

Dont invite any of your friends or relatives over. tell them how horrible it is to live here. Tell them about the loud helicopters, tell them about the Vog, tell them about the lack of jobs, and poor road systems... tell them how the tidepools are polluted with scary things... how hard it is to build...etc.....

Then tell them that it is so bad... you are thinking of moving back... but maybe next year... hee hee hee

[mgeary]

rbbyrd definitely has it right that California is screwed up, in large measure due to the initiative process. Prop. 13 was good in that it kept old people from being taxed out of their own homes, but that was just the beginning of a cascade of mandatory spending initiatives and tax- and fee-reduction initiatives. They don't add up to a balanced budget, as you can see here:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sund...y?ctrack=1&cset=true

That's not why I'm bailing out in two years, but it certainly has shown me that if given the choice by initiative ballot, large majorities of both Democrats and Republicans will vote (have voted) to lower their taxes while at the same time insisting on higher services from the public sector.

There's a lot of discussion here on Punaweb about limiting growth, limiting tourism, etc. I have my own thoughts, but I don't have any answers. If California is any example, I don't think legislation by voter initiative has worked very well, by many measures.

How do I know?

[mella l]

The problems with Prop 13 are numerous, especially troubling are that Corporations, in 1800's were granted the status of individual, and there fore qualified for the prop 13 benefits also! It was to help older people who worked their whole lives contributing to society, to be able to keep their homes with some tax relief, well it went well beyond that!

The California initiative was set up for the public to have a say in the governing of the state and get representatives attention with areas important to the public, education, police, fire departments ad infinitum. Unfortunately that process is no longer grass roots either. Corporations, and organizations with agendas usurped the citizen initiative process thru straw men organizations in my opinion.

I think going back to the old west might not be a bad idea, stick to the basics. When communities started establishing themselves, first they wanted education for their young, a sheriff, and fire squadrons. It has gone so far beyond the basic needs that it's now cancerous in epic proportions.

Where does California's Governator want to cut as the budget is spiraling, education, sheriff and fire. Go figure. Don't touch the third rail of corporations. Don't touch medical insurance, investor profits from the misery of the medically challenged masses. He ran on over Grey Davis for his budget woes, promising to get the fat and corruption out, but forgot to cut up the credit cards and here we are again. Oh well why am I so cynical, read too much?

The California way is not one I wish to see implemented in Hawaii, I just hope the citizenry has a little more say there!

mella l