The right contract

[Guest]

Very well said, and I often wonder if that's why some people use anonymous nicknames on here.

If I ran things around here... I would say no one is allowed to insult a contractor unless they are willing to put there real name on the line in doing so.

It leaves no check or balance for someone to come on to Punaweb with an anonymous name and to start talking crap about someone.

We all know that KathyH is at least a KathyH. But some others that might complain go by anonymous nicknames on here and you can't really tell if they are telling the truth... Or just giving there one side of the story.

But very well said Cat... As I know a few people in the industry and I always warn them of potential people that may give them hardships down the road.

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Glob

[janeadams]

A word about change orders...

Dreaded concept -- causes delays and adds $$ to the final price...

HOWEVER,

we had a project with a good GC where the change orders had to happen. When you do a major remodel and get around to opening up walls on a place that's been renovated or expanded by a homeowner, you never know what may happen.

We found and and had to correct: lamp cord in the walls as wiring, and a wall between bedroom and bath that was constructed of nailed-together pieces of 2x4's -- not a full stud in the whole thing. Inspector was polite, but said "I can't ignore that"... and the change orders came, which also meant cost over-runs on tiling, cabinets and other finish work.

All that said, we had a great GC, who went out of his way to suggest good solutions. This was the first of two great GC's we worked with. Second was on Maui, and we had a personal agreement between the two of us to not do any change orders -- build what was spec-ed as it was new construction. Third great person was Rob Tucker, though not as a GC, he made construction of our small home here happen with the greatest of support.

Basic message is to not damn change orders, but look at where they come from. It's your whim to change something, you bear some responsibility. If it's due to circumstances in your remodel, you should plan ahead with a contingency. Wish we'd done that, but that's water under the bridge.

Jane

[StillHope]

Thank you,everyone for your comments.

Kapohocat,I think you mistakenly placed your comments in this thread.
I was following Hooligal's post about lack of understanding contracts.
Wanted to have this understanding,which might be helpful for others.
What this has to do with contractors talking about their clients and someone not returning the call?
It looks like your response belongs to the contractors thread.
If not ,some people might think that you are talking about me,which I believe is not the case.Please,clarify the subject,because I don't have a contract yet,just learning and so far my relationship with my GC are very good.(So far I don't have reasons to believe otherwise).

Note:I don't think you intended for nasty forum trolls to use your strange comment..

[John S. Rabi]

I always tell my clients: if you don't understand the purchase contract or counter offer than DON'T SIGN IT! My company represents you, so ask the questions. We might not know the answer but that's why we have an attorney on retainer.

Aloha,
John S. Rabi, GM,ARB,BFT,CM,CBR,FHS,PB,RB
808.989.1314
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"

[StillHope]

Thank you,John!
You are always so professional!
I like to learn things and thought my questions might be useful for other people.
It's nice to know that your company is offering your clients such a great variety of services!
Please,always stand by![]

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by StillHope
Kapohocat,I think you mistakenly placed your comments in this thread.....
Note:I don't think you intended for nasty forum trolls to use your strange comment..

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Thanks for the compliment Hope.

Even though Kapohocat's comment were directed at Rob's comment and directly quoted in her reply.. you insist on thinking it's misplaced????[}]

Glad to see your still calling me a troll.[}]

Since your so good at telling stories.... let me tell you about the straw that broke the camels back.....[}]

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Glob

[DanielP]

Wow! This thread has been hijacked from the get-go. The question is a good one....What is included in a contract?

Not whether a contract is a good vehicle or not.

Those of us familiar with the trades often forget that our clients have no idea how the building process happens.

The clients don't even know enough to ask the right questions.

We, as professionals, need to educate the clients who we choose to work with. A better educated client is a better client.

We also need to interview potential clients to determine whether they are good clients or owners from hell. We need to determine whether they are good listeners. We have been in our businesses long enough to know how to do this. I know contractors who require credit reports from clients before they will bid a job!

So back to the question; What is included in a contract?

All contracts are different. You can get a variety of fill-in-the-blanks, boilerplate contracts on line or from an an office supply store. I don't like 'em, but they will include some useful and required language. The particular contract that your builder uses will be unknown to you until you see it, so....
When you first meet with a contractor ask him (or her) for a copy of a typical contract that they use. This can be a big step in your education.

And for folks new to having a new home built, be proactive in educating yourselves. Don't depend on your contractor for that; what they tell you might not be in your best interest. And it might. When you have determined that the contractor is right for you, then stick with him and listen.

Again, a contract is a communication tool, It should define the process, answer questions and be an active reference for both the contractor and client throughout the building process.

Lastly; CHECK REFERENCES, CHECK REFERENCES, CHECK REFERENCES

Dan

[StillHope]

Daniel,your posts on the subject belong to a text book,especially the phrase about educating a client.
My contractor came with very good references(I would say,the best possible), helped me a lot with understanding the building process.
Our relationship are very honest and open.
But I've never build a house before-I woman with no experience in the field.
But I am blessed with getting help from good people (may be because I always try to help if I can) and a gift to tell a good person from a bad one. But I have a "cheat sheet" - most of the "dog" people are good and vice versa []

Disclaimer: the last phrase is a joke,though there is a saying - "in every joke there's a piece of joke,the rest is true".

[Kapohocat]

quote:

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Originally posted by StillHope........Wanted to have this understanding,which might be helpful for others.
What this has to do with contractors talking about their clients and someone not returning the call?
It looks like your response belongs to the contractors thread.
If not ,some people might think that you are talking about me,which I believe is not the case.Please,clarify the subject,because I don't have a contract yet,just learning and so far my relationship with my GC are very good.(So far I don't have reasons to believe otherwise).

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The post was in response to Rob's post about a PM contract so either party can walk away. This comment could have gone into any of the three threads right now on contractors including this one.

Still hope, specifically, this wasnt about you at all. In the "you" it was the general public at large. (damon now I know how you feel!! [])

Yes "you" (general public) must be very diligent in your efforts on your contract as DanP stated (Note to DanP - when you coming back again this way??). But Rob's suggestions on the project manager contract are very good - gives either party a way to walk away politely if either party is uncomfortable after the project starts.

Why I mentioned not calling back was if a client is difficult/ unethical, sometimes there is no contract that offer protection from wasting time and money, so as that person gets to be known in the community, instead of entering into a contract, the subcontractos stop returning calls for the bid request.

An attorney I went to school with told me one time, the person who writes the contract will pretty much be in a losing position - meaning the other party can always find a loop hole. Iron-clad is just a myth.

Does that clarify my response on contracts, and contractors?



Catherine Dumond
Blue Water Project Management
808 965-9261
"We help make building your dream home a reality"

[StillHope]

Thanks,Cat!
I am glad you cleared the subject.You are one of the most respectful people on the forum.So your opinion is very important to me.But you may have some idea why your post could be misinterpreted.