Geothermal

[james weatherford]

Good discussion here -- revealing those who know and those who don't care.
PGV is a case study in screw up -- zoning, building, community relations, operations, all of it.
Is geothermal something we can trust and live with? That remains an open question on Hawaii Island. The reality is that "no" remains the logical answer based upon actual experience. The hope remains that the answer can somehow, someday be, "yes".

Regarding HELCO prices being stuck to petroleum prices: that is policy established by the State Public Utilities Commission Maybe HELCO likes it? I'm not certain.
How to get it changed? The Legislature and the PUC.




James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park

[gtill]

PGV is an example of UH in action. The only one of 3 multimillion dollar projects that worked. And it worked because the state backed off and let a professional corporation take it over.
Kohala task force was a huge loss,(state sponsored seed corn growing in HAWI).
OTEC, cold water from below to make electricity. Fish were more fun, and the electric generator failed because of biofouling (no maintainance), but being a state entity it quit electricy and went into fish follies.
PGV took over the entire geothermal project, and it has run almost flawlessly ever since, the money they make is set by PUC, and the company has provided a 3+million fund for contingency which the county is now trying to steal for their slush fund.
If there's anyone who shouldn't be trusted, it's the UH and State govt.

Gordon J Tilley

[peteadams]

One aspect of the early PGV efforts was the land swap involved before they moved to their present site. PGV and the James Campbell Estate got the state/DLNR to swap the estate's original drilling location, as I understand it a difficult site right on the East Rift, for Wai Kele O Puna, the Forest Reserve mauka of Pahoa. Historically this was a culturally important area for backup food sources, timber, birds and other resources. That sort of cultural blindness and inside dealing on the part of the state and a wealthy and powerful estate was probably when people really started to get angry. Though the site was unused (other than as a marshalling area by the DEA for helicopter surveillance of our backyards), a small Hawaiian shrine was nicely maintained near the gate right up to OHA's recent acquisition of the Wai Kele. If you've ever been up there you know the drilling area is a scraped scar on the landscape with really ugly deep sedimentation ponds, scummy and lined with disintegrating fabric. Neighbors living only a few miles away from the site during construction were well and truly blasted for a very long time by the noise of the blow off. A cap, supposedly a muffler sort of device "the size of a Volkswagen" according to their story, was blown well away from the bore hole. The present cap has an old gauge on it that measures up to 1000 psi. And, yes, the cap does look quite rusty.

[Jon]

I do believe that if people take the time to read this thread they care....
so I guess everyone here is the know... huh.

quote:

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Originally posted by james weatherford

Good discussion here -- revealing those who know and those who don't care.

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Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"

[missydog1]

People get sick who live in the vicinity, women have more miscarriages, children have more birth defects (this is in the first years people are telling you about, Jon), same old story of environmental poisoning by a big plant as was brought to attention in Erin Brokovitch and Civil Action ... and Silkwood.

Why should any power plant get a free pass from the requirement to run a truly safe and non-toxic operation, in the middle of a residential community? Simply because the energy source is an alternative to petrolatum? What, we want our lights to cost less no matter what the cost to people who live near the operations?

Personally I don't trust the geothermal because the volcanic forces are incredibly powerful. The article on the magma is quick to say it couldn't have turned into anything dangerous, but it also says they were completely surprised when they found it. So they don't know exactly what will happen as they proceed, or what they will find.

As for knocking the beliefs of Native Hawaiians ... you know, the Hawaiians don't travel the world protesting at volcanoes ... this is their home, their volcano, and we are guests, and could maybe be respectful of their feelings?

[rbakker]

"People get sick who live in the vicinity, women have more miscarriages, children have more birth defects "

They do? Please provide a link from a reputable source.

It's precisely because volcanic forces are so powerful that we should be tapping into them for energy.
Drill far enough down anywhere in the world and you get almost unlimited supplies of energy. Here in Hawaii they don't have to drill so far.

Everyone is a guest on this island, it was here way before people arrived.

[Jon]

And the last time I checked, I was a citizen of Hawaii and the USA... part of that volcano is public land that makes that part, our volcano.


Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"

[Guest]

Jon - Quit blowing bubble gum!

I don't believe you have lived here long enough to meet the "Federal Requirement" for residency yet. []

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My Blog

[missydog1]

rbakker, there are articles on the net about the health complaints during the years when the operation was having blowouts ... before it changed hands. You can find them on google. I linked them once before on Punaweb, but don't have them saved.

Basically the problem people faced with being heard or believed is that there's insufficient information on the negative results of LOW LEVEL hydrogen sulfide over a long period of time. Everyone acknowledges that H2S is lethal over a certain parts per million, but the data is not "hard science" as to whether ppm deemed safe on any one day are safe if breathed over a period of years.

So it comes down to "anecdotal" reports ... and anyway they were "hippies" so they had no credibility.

Jon - I don't know how to reply to your POV except that attitude gets us all disliked.
You should read some more history of how Hawai'i became part of the U.S.. It was a wrongful overthrow; there has been a presidential apology. It just can't be undone.

The rights and beliefs of Native Hawaiians have in the past been considered in making public policy. Shoreline access laws come out of the legal fight to maintain traditional fishing rights. The public policy here is to TRY to strike a balance between development and traditional beliefs. Burial grounds stop multi-million dollar subdivisions ...
Mauna Kea expansion is in question due to the spiritual status of the mountain.

The it's the USA and I'm a citizen argument doesn't fly here with a lot of people.

[gtill]

Since the start, Ormat has contributed to a fund for any problems they might cause in the community. Now, mabe if someone has problems and wants out they can get a buyout deal. Or just let it build until the time somthing does happen. Keep it out of the hands of the city council.
The Hawaiian community is coming around to it's necessity, both Dr English and Mililani Trask want to give it a try. Cooler heads are going to prevail, the problem will be with the UH radical anti everything forces, who will try to whip up a frenzy among the UH students, and make a big scene, recently just 2 guys from Manoa, talked UHH students into refusing a 10 million program from the navy, and they wonder why the campus is broke.
I think the thing to remember is that Ormat didn't do all the things this project has recklessly done, it was the state, trying to control the project who caused most of the problems. Get the govt out and things work much better.