12 K solar system?

[StillHope]

Thank you for responding,Rob.
At this point I decided to have gas on demand water heater because one of the tax credits was set to expire last December and until I have the income in Hawaii I am not qualified for the state tax credit.

And I hope you can answer the other important question:

Will I get refund for the electrical connection if I decide to swithch for the solar later?

(My understanding is that it costs about 3 K in our subdivision).

As far as getting credits from HELCO for extra energy,I have NO IDEA about that.
I would appreciate some education on the subject.

[Hotzcatz]

Our system has about $8K in equipment costs and runs the whole house with occasional generator assist. There are roughly eight 150watt panels on the roof so in full sunlight, they can generate 1,200 watts (per hour) which is 1.2KW or around 10 amps of power at 115 volts.

Watts is your basic measuring unit for power. My popcorn popper uses 1,475 watts (per hour) so when it is running it uses more power than the solar panels can produce. However, there is a bank of storage batteries (they look like 12 car batteries) which stores up the power for when the sun isn't shining or for when we want to use more than the panels can produce.

The basic differences between an alternate energy house and an on the grid house is an awareness of power usage. We have a propane stove and an on demand gas water heater but we have an electric refrigerator as well as an electric freezer. There is a "solar clothes dryer" very similar to what my grannie had but she called hers a "clothesline". Otherwise, a gas dryer works fine, too. The lights are all compact fluorescents or LED lights and there are very few electrical devices which make heat although electric blankets and small incubators for eggs don't use that much power. The electronics, especially those with "fast startup" or "hibernate" are all on electrical outlets with wall switches so the power can be entirely shut off to them since they have "ghost loads" and like to suck power even when they are switched "off".

We have a lot of non-electric things such as a French press to make coffee instead of an electric coffee maker. The water is heated up on the gas stove in a whistling teapot and then poured into the French press for coffee. I do have a lot of electric kitchen appliances, but they aren't the type that make heat. A Kitchen Aid mixer, Champion juicer, meat grinders, coffee grinders, etc. Once you get your house systems set up to not use much power you don't have to think about it much on a daily basis.

You get used to checking the power to see if it is a good time to run a load of laundry or to vacuum. The Roomba vacuuming robots use a LOT less power than the big drag around type of vacuums so now you will have a good excuse to get a robot vacuum. Not having carpets in your house is even better so the floor can be swept or mopped instead of vacuumed.

Our preference was for a stand alone electrical system not connected to the grid in any fashion. Frequently, folks who have the grid-tie don't have the battery bank so when the grid goes down, so does their power. We are, however, invested in Hawaiian Electric just so they can pay us dividends while we don't pay them anything at all. ;O

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"I like yard sales," he said. "All true survivalists like yard sales."
Kurt Wilson

[StillHope]

Wow! Thanks a lot,Hotzcatz!
I didn't know about the storage of unused energy.
I am surprised that you don't have a solar water heater.
So far I plan to have gas on demand water heater and a gas stove .
I really don't care about the dryer,but I like to take my sweet time in the shower)):

[robguz]

You don't get a refund on your Helco hookup costs for any reason that I know of. But you would still get all the tax credits for solar hot water once you have income in HI. I didn't have enough to get the full benefit, and you still have to front $4500 and wait for tax time to get your refund. I imagine they will keep getting renewed. I would check with Helco directly about grid tie in and make sure you have system for when Helco goes down. Our power goes out here in Seaview at least once a month, usually for no apparent reason, i.e. no storm or other explanation. I've gotten my electric bill down to about $80 which is tolerable. My appliances are energy star, gas dryer, and shutting off all my big TV, stereo stuff completely from the power plug took off at least $20 a month alone.
I'd go all solar if I could afford it.

[Hotzcatz]

We have three big solar water heating panels we found at the transfer station which we just haven't bothered to install yet. Haven't a clue why someone would throw something like that out, but we don't ask, we just drag them home. One of these days we will get around to putting them in, probably the next time propane prices go up.

I really like the on demand water heater. We never run out of hot water as long as there is propane. Oh, when using an "on demand" water heater, you have to demand hot water or it won't turn on. Just cracking open the hot water a little bit doesn't always work although some models are better than others. We have the Bosch unit now with a piezo electric starter and it is much more sensitive to hot water demand than the Paloma was.

Tax credits are only good if you have a taxable income to deduct them from. Not spending money in the first place is just as good (IMHO) as getting it back later.

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"I like yard sales," he said. "All true survivalists like yard sales."
Kurt Wilson

[StillHope]

quote:

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Originally posted by Hotzcatz
Tax credits are only good if you have a taxable income to deduct them from. Not spending money in the first place is just as good (IMHO) as getting it back later.

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Exactly!
So the guy is asking 2.5 K for the solar water heater.It's lees than I'd have left after rebates.But does he have to be HELCO certified or not?

[mikewj]

Regarding HELCO solar credits: My understanding is that both solar water heating and solar electric (net metering) require installation by a HELCO approved contractor in order to get the direct rebate from HELCO. I believe that net metering is adjusted either once or twice annually, with credit given for the generated power, but you can only run the meter to zero; anything above your actual usage will not result in a payment from HELCO. Also you still are required to pay the basic electric supply charge, which pays for the maintenance of the HELCO supply lines. If you opt for a completely 'off-grid' system, you would need either a battery array or a generator for power when the sun isn't shining. If you are lucky enough to live where the wind blows at night, you could instal a wind generator for electricity after dark. Any of these systems would qualify for Federal and State of Hawaii Tax Credit, assuming you have Hawaii income. SS or retirement income qualifies if you are a Hawaii resident, as well as locally earned income.

[StillHope]

Thank you,Mike!
What do you mean by running the meter to zero?
Another thing is that the Fed. credit was set to expire last December.
Did they extend it?

[Dave Smith]

Good luck getting Helco to refund your connection fee, unless you were the one who paid it. The fee, which is also known as SSPP for Special Subdivision Project Provision, brings power to the road in front of your lot. Since we have solar, and no desire to ever hook up to Helco, we tried to get the fee refunded, but Helco refused since it was paid by a previous owner and we did not have an authorizing notarized statement from that owner.

I'm not done trying, though.

[john the architect]

People throw away solar devices because they think they make their roof look ugly. Ugly is a roof that is facing south and doing nothing to earn its keep. Or a building designed without any south facing roof.