Reasons to leave Hawaii

[punafish]

I've only been on island since June so my opinion is truly a humble one. I should preface my comments by saying that I've lived in many different places throughout my life - 10 years in a foreign country (as different from the U.S. as a place could be). You don't go through major life moves without learning to adapt. We also go into our moves with eyes open and realistic expecations. That said, there is an infinite number of ways to look at any situation - positive and negative. You choose your own outlook. My definition of "adapting" is taking any given situation and finding a way to make it a positive experience. Here's my outlook 2 months into the move:

Education: Got a 16-year old adapting quite nicely to Pahoa's Charter School (HAAS). He likes the school, teachers and overall experience so far, and is making friends. If your critique of the school system is based on SAT/ACT performance criteria, then his previous school in Barrinton IL will likely win hands down (although the jury is still out). But then my definition of "education" is much broader than test scores and GPAs. The most valuable experience I can give my child is exposure to a new culture, learning humility, seizing opportunities to deal with adversity, making new friends with different outlooks on life, etc. In our particular case, we plan to supplement his education by sending him to Japan to visit his grandparents (and brother), deepen his knowledge of his mother's culture, and brush up on his Japanese language skills. I'm not representative of the general populace, but I'll gladly take this education over 4 years at Harvard or Yale.

Driving: The driving here compared to Suburbia USA (in my case, Chicago area) is a piece of cake. My business doesn't require much driving anyway, so for me it's a non-issue

Weather: Chicago snow or Puna rain, hmmmm? No brainer there.

People: We've made more friends in these last two months than I can ever remember making in such a short period of time. I'm Irish haole, but very comfortable being around people of different cultural, ethnic and racial persuasions. If I've gotten stink-eye I was too oblivious to notice.

Beauty: it's the most beautiful place I've ever lived. Everywhere you look you see beauty: the people, the ocean, the sky, the jungle, the coast, the clouds, the mountains, the stars at night. Every morning I wake up and I thank those beautiful lucky stars that I live here.

Lack of nightlife: this would have mattered 15-20 years ago. Now I'm happy to talk story on my back lanai with close friends.

Work: I can live anywhere and do my job, although Hawaii is an ideal place for what I do. Until I build my client base here, I've accepted that occasional business trips to the mainland will be a necessary evil

Family: got used to living away from family during my 10 years abroad. Both parents are gone now. And over the last 14 years living near siblings, we only got together once or twice a year. Fortunately we've got email and cell phones so loved ones don't seem so far away.

At this juncture we can't imagine ever wanting to leave BI We'll see how we feel a year from now...

Aloha

Tim

"...if silence were golden you couldn't raise a dime; 'cause your mind is on vacation and your mouth is working overtime" Mose Allison

[lquade]

when i first came to the islands in 1967 living here became my dream. it took me until 1982 to realize and build my home. thats a long time to be aware that it REALLY was my goal and not a romantic, tropical fantasy but that i would fit in, and love the lifestyle. oregon was wonderful in itself then and hawaii was so expensive, so isolated, so different in every respect... so much has changed.... there are 50 million people in california and it seems most want to go somewhere else. even the oregonians are disenchanted. these people are coming, some with realistic expectations, some just want to leave where they are and who wouldnt want to live in hawaii?? ah but then reality sets in.. this tiny rock the furthest land mass from any other in the entire world! a totally different culture and even though your only shopping is no longer the garden exchange, pennys, longs and hirano's store with the new choices came people, people, people and all the same problems that made some people want to leave the mainland... i think the statistics are much the same, that 1 out of every 3 that move here, move back to the mainland. this rock is not for everyone, and it is no shame to realize that and find a different dream to pursue. i only hope the aloha spirit can somehow survive among those that do decide to stay and enjoy pele's gifts....

**Just remember- if the world didnt suck, we would all fall off!**

[Da Stef]

I also hate driving. Now I came from L.A. so the situation is much better here as far as traffic. but I pretty much spend the same amount of time in a car b/c you can't get anything done w/o driving. Especially considering the lack of services (trash pick-up, mail delivery,...)

So moving to Ashland will take care of my two biggest pet peeves of living here (schools and driving). In Ashland, we are walking distance to an elementary school (from what I understand, top schools in the country) and almost walking distance to the downtown. I could walk it but probably not with three kids in tow. That's why the first thing I'm going to buy us is some bikes. and one of those wagons.

I agree with... somebody. The things that most disappointed me when I moved here where b/c of the ideas I had in my head about what Hawaii should be like. But I got over those. mostly. I didn't find the Aloha that I felt was promised. Especially not from many Native Hawaiians. That took me a few years to get over. But I found it in many local haoles and especially in the filipinos. and within the hippie community.

I found a lot of hipocracy, which I guess will be everywhere. But someone who believes in taking care of the aina shouldn't go around in monster truck or smoky puna beater. People preaching that you should take care of the people shouldn't be threatening their kids while smoking and drinking. Those are the kind of things I found that people where very high and mighty about.

I also think Hawaii is very racist, not just in a bad way, I've never had anyone try to beat me up. But that everything is so race oriented. Every piece of paper asks for your ethnicity. My daughter's birth certificate states all of our ethnicities. And there's an error on mine and everybody is refusing to fix it b/c I don't have three generation of birth certificates. Which wouldn't prove my race anyways since my ethnicity isn't written on anybody else's birth certificate. grrr. but that frustration is probably more beaurocratic than racist.

Now so that I don't come off as too negative, I'll mention some of the things I'll miss the most. The most obvious thing is the ocean. warm clear waters full of interesting things. Every time we went to the beach, I felt like I had gone on a mini vacation. I still haven't seen a lot, so there's a lot of exploring that's been left undone. I'll miss my neighbors who bring by pineapples and bananas and send my mom orchids on her birthday. I'll miss the coquis and how dark it gets at night. the fact that you can actually see galaxies (that really beat L.A.'s 3 nightly stars). I'll miss the brown faces. I'll miss the keiki's calling me auntie and being cute and sweet even when their makuas barely made eye contact with me. I'll miss the bright colors (red roads, green trees, blue skies). I'll miss saying lilikoi. I could go on all day.

But really, I think that if I really wanted to stay I could. But at heart, I'm a traveler and I like visiting new places and living in new areas and meeting different people. And since we can't really afford big vacations, we stay in the US, but in very different areas. To really get to know them. I think my problem is that I don't really have roots anywhere, so I'm looking for that place that feels like home. hawaii might be it, but I have to know for sure. We are keeping our house here though b/c if we sold it we probably wouldn't be able to come back.

enough rambling for now. I have packing to do, kids to feed, movers to call, ....

stef

[Kapohocat]

I just cracked up at this thread! I have been here almost 20 years and every 5-7 years go through this same thing... then I make a big trip back to the mainland (typically Texas, LA, Las Vegas, or SF) and when I arrive home in Hilo I practically kiss the ground.

I thank the powers that be that we have crappy schools, poor health care, traffic on the Keaau-Pahoa Rd, and all the other things complained about above. Why am I thankful? Because otherwise another 100,000 people would move here next year and the year after that.... So tell your friends how horrible the Big Island is..... PLEASE!!!!!!

(and keep the secret of how much aloha is here, how beautiful our oceans are, how special the island is in general!)....

So when people ask me if they should move here, I say "oh no...." with a little smile on my face!

[Rob Tucker]

Stef, I am sorry that your school experience has been bad. School is an important issue. Our girls have had an excellent time at Auntie Cindy's home school in HPP. It is now associated with HAAS. The rates are reasonable and last summer they preferred skipping Disneyland to missing one day of school ! (We managed to do both).

The school was thru 7th grade though and I don't know your kids ages.

As the girls grow up we have to face other choises and are paying close attention to the situation.

Best wishes to you and yours,

Aloha

Punaweb moderator

[loffelkopffl]

kaphocat, i second that


too bad the island fever doesn't spread more quickly, lol

[Hotzcatz]

I heard it said once somewhere that all the "Aloha's" in the world can't match one small
"Hi, grandpa!" and that is why they were moving to the mainland to be near their grandkids.

[Da Stef]

maybe leaving the island is what it's going to take to come back home.

that's why we aren't selling the house.

[David M]

Of all the great posts, I think I enjoyed Kapohocat's the most, because it reminds me of of a true story. Shortly, before our move here, we were introduced to a gentleman by a friend of ours. Of course, the main point of the intro was the fact we were moving to Hawaii. So this gentlemen frowns and immediately says somewhat pompously, "Hawaii, that's so far away, I could NEVER live there, too far away." My dear sweet wife never missed a beat, smiled and replied," and we thank God for people like you".

Anyway, to add my own ramblings... As a kid growing up, my construction worker Dad would move the family to where the job was - other than his expectation of getting paid (I recall him boosting in later life, how when we kids were growing up, he never missed a payday), I don't recall a lot of research in choosing a new place, never heard an evaluation of the schools (all public), and we kids were never asked if we wanted to move or not, and once moved, stayed until the next move.

As an adult, I eventually chose a career in the Army. You didn't spend 20 years in the same place, didn't always get to pick where or when you moved. And except for that move to Georgia, our son only went to the finest public schools. LOL
Fortunately, one of those "not my choice" moves was to Hawaii for 4 years. So our recent move to BI was my homecoming. Just took too long to get back.

Healthcare - So how come if it's so bad, Hawaii has one of the highest life expectancies? With the exception of one experience, we are very pleased with the care here, and trust me, we are experiencing far more of it than planned, but that's another story.

Cost of living: Choices - basically, I have just so many dollars to live on, but how I spend them is my choice. I wear a lot of T's, shorts, and recently had to replace the slippahs I bought in 1989. Actually, living here costs me less than Atlanta.

Family - I know this can be a touchy subject for some people and every family is different. Surprisingly, many people aren't even aware of their own situation, but let's face it, if a family visit means you always visit them and not vice versa when you live on the mainland, don't expect it to change in Hawaii. I've got 3 sisters, still live in Maine dontcha know, and since I sold my house in Maine (1977), they've never been in any other house I've owned or lived in although I definitely been to theirs, ay-uh. So far, we see our son about as often as when we lived in Atlanta, but we do talk on the phone, have email and now they got a picture phone. We are looking forward to seeing them here at Christmas. I do tell him, he doesn't have to move here, but his only inheritance is on this island

Prejudice - aka racism. I am so thankful Hawaii has NOT gotten all PC about it and can still relish their divesity - especially with humor. Could you imagine the Boloheads on mainland radio? Of all the places I've lived in the world, my wife and I agree we never experienced it (true prejudice) like in Atlanta.

Education - Someday, some people are going to realize that their precious son/daughter is just not going to be the world's next greatest (fill the blank) due to their max SAT. And once they are over it, perhaps they can take pride in the fact, that son/daughter is a fine cook, truck driver, carpenter, store clerk, dentist, vet, or anyone of the thousands of important people we rely on every day in our lives. Our son drives a UPS truck. Can't say that was ever part of our expectations, but I suspect there are a bunch of people happy to see him everyday.

OK, way too long. Bottomline, not everyone was meant to live here forever. No problem with that, just like you don't have to live anywhere else forever either.

Move here with an open mind and open heart - perhaps when you leave, you'll make the next place mo bettah

David




Ninole Resident

Edited by - David M on 08/20/2006 20:30:26

[Punamom]

Yes Cat that is a great perspective I'll remember that one when I get the fever.I have not been off the rock in almost 3 years and I'm getting a little punaticky.LOL HAHAHA
I'm feeling hot no its cold chills arghh a fever must be the flu.LOL


I am not sure if folks really understand the issue of the public schools here.Its not just that the curriculum is way behind that of mainland schools,there are also serious discipline problems in the upper grades. The things that go on would never be tolerated in mainland schools,regular fighting(boys and girls),drug use in the hallways,disrespect to teachers,a general lack of academic attitude with all the grades and racism.
The public bus system here is another thing, considering what I have seen and heard I would not put my kids on one.
The charter schools are trying but have a problem with kids that get thrown out of the public schools end up going to the charters.
I'd say they have the same problems they are just smaller so its not as noticable.

As far as the free/lowcost schools with a good reputation like Aunty Cindy's they have "waiting lists".
So it seems all were left with is the over priced and not that great private schools and your own transportation.
But hey if it keeps hundreds of thousands of people away I guess its worth it.;\



Edited by - punamom on 08/20/2006 02:35:58