Plastic Bag Ban Again

[Chuysmom]

I agree with you Rob. Sometimes the greater good should actually win. When these plastic bags started being used, all the checkers were pissed 'cause nothing stacked in them like in a nice, square paper bag...well, where'd THAT sentiment go?? We are spoiled children and sometimes we just have to take "NO" for an answer. Our earth is hurting. We are hurting it and need to stop. I hope they ban the use of this stuff and make way for a greener, healthier alternative to many things. There are opportunities here for all. Gorgeous land and sea creatures are dying at our lazy hands. This is something we CAN do. (Carrie gingerly steps off her soap box...)

Carrie


"The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it." Galadriel - LOTR

[rasman]

When this was first proposed. We mostly heard from those opposed about the inconvenience of not having a free plastic bag at the checkout line.
Having done most of my shopping at health food stores and farmers' markets I, along with many, many others have grown accustom to the BYOB
(Bring Your Own Bag) technique. It's really not that bad! It is also preferable to paper bags which have their own obvious environmental impact.
Our addiction to fossil fuels and petroleum has also coincided with and actually given birth to an addiction to plastics. I think this ban and others like it could be a first step to regulating our use of plastic, specifically those not recycled or recyclable.
We must not forget that we have a garbage vortex not far from our
islands that is mostly plastic that will be around for an undetermined length of time. Generation upon generation will have to deal with the plastics we've created yesterday and today. Talk about an inconvenience!

P.S. Anyone ever read "A World Without Us" by Alan Weisman ? I thought it was fairly well written myself. Check it out if you get a chance.

[Bob Orts]

Carrie, This Bill applies to all commercial establishments that provide plastic bags at checkout to include restaurants and mini markets. Since those two were exempt before and probably were the biggest providers of immediately discarded plastic bags, opposition from the established retail store probably won't materialize. Additionally, retailers knew this was coming and effective date is over a year away, there is ample time to plan.

This Bill also tackled the whole falsehood of so-called compostable plastic bags, which are still plastic that will always be plastic. That was a contradiction in the last Bill that many called out the Council on.

I think the odds are good for passage.[]

Carey, deposits wouldn't work. Unlike cans or bottles, at current prices, weight and bulk, you can ship a 20' container of plastic bags (350,000) to Hawaii from a CA distributor at a total all inclusive cost of 3.45 cents per bag. If the deposit was five cents, a savvy entrepreneur could make over $5,000 per container. The deposit will be paid out with no deposit money coming in. The County was made aware of this potential problem.

Greg, Charge per bag has two benefits. The retailer recoups the cost per bag and a plastic bag mitigation program could be funded from a portion of the per bag cost. But who is going to pay even 25 cents per bag? They would rather reuse their own bag than pay that price. That reduces the overall plastic bag usage; the main goal of the Bill.

Rob, Hawaii is lucky that developing a sensible plastic bag ban won't have the problems of mainland areas where the plastic bags are still prevalent as litter because boundaries are wide open. San Francisco, which has a ban, still has large amounts of plastic bag litter because outside the city limits, they are still available and people travel across city boundaries all the time.

[Chuysmom]

Shouldn't this be a global thing? I mean thinking outside the box here (er...bag), shouldn't there be a push to globally do away with this sort of product that directly injures the environment?? That swill in the ocean is comprised of more than just USA garbage...we all have a hand in it don't we?

Carrie


"The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it." Galadriel - LOTR

[Wao nahele kane]

We can blow carbon out our tail pipes like there's no tommorow but we'll quickly jump on a few plastic bags and wave the "we're doing something flag". The fine art of B.S.ing ones self, "Denial ain't just a river in Egypt".



E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.

[Carey]

Bob, I realize that the deposit won't work, it was just a thought.... from a very odd & floor addled mind...

The use of bags is a trained response. A little over a century ago, there was no expectation of a bag at purchase, few stores offered, but not many, usually more of a news wrap. Even when I was a child there were places that had bags for free, but many that did not or that had the handled bags in a dispenser that you purchased.... There are a couple of grocery stores in the Midwest that never did offer free bags...

It amazes me that I am now trained to bring bags into the grocery store, but seem to forget them most of the time at the department stores (did I really go into these stores NOT TO BUY STUFF? - what was I thinking.... ) I usually roll the stuff I buy out in the cart (the store guardian looking me over like a I'm a wayward recycler) & bag them into my dandy selection of reuse bags, that were left in the car.... Hopefully I will be fully retrained soon....

ETA: Kane, though the amount of oil we burn through far exceeds that in our plastics, both do damage, and it is far easier to see the deadly damage plastics are doing here, in the oceans, on our marine environment. Is it right to have such a view? No. but how many are willing to forego their vehicles? Hopefully there will be an answer to this dilemma, but for most, it is not here now... As the now very old saying goes "Every litter bit hurts"

ETAII: Bob, there will still be some plastic bag migration here (no way as much as in some municipalities, but far more that most rural ag areas with our population would have), as long as our visitor ratio is so much higher than our population. Visitors do bring in plastic bags, and that is something that will be here to deal with...

[Rob Tucker]

quote:

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Originally posted by Chuysmom

Shouldn't this be a global thing?

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It is and it will be. Things start where they start and move on from there. No one should think that things will stay the same here or anywhere else.

Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator

[Devany]

This same kind of legislation passed and was successful in the bay area a few years ago. It is working out just fine. There the ruling only related to larger stores and businesses. Very small retail stores and farmer's markets were exempt. Personally I would like to see non-compostable take out containers banned as well. Styrofoam is also a huge problem.

We should also see this as a business opportunity to make some really cool looking shopping bags!

Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany

www.myhawaiianhome.blogspot.com
www.eastbaypotters.blogspot.com

[808blogger]

quote:

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I seriously think that it would be a better idea to just charge .50 or so for each plastic bag used. Money can be a great motivator for people to bring their own bags;

Get used to the notion of sales taxes and "Advance Disposal Fees." There is no other solution.

Sometimes the greater good should actually win

Our earth is hurting. We are hurting it and need to stop. I hope they ban the use of this stuff and make way for a greener, healthier alternative to many things

I think this ban and others like it could be a first step to regulating our use of plastic,

Shouldn't this be a global thing?

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there are some real winners in here. I would suggest that all of you that think this is a good idea need to consider the logical conclusions of your arguments.

the only conclusion i can come to from reading such loony toons responses is that your people like to regulate on each other, for the "earth" and the "common good". You all feel as if you are somehow partly owned by this system, these are not the quotes of free thinkers, these are quotes of trained and groomed citizens. The undomesticated free individual does not think or speak like that.

There is only 1 common good, however that is not a topic for this thread.

The earth is not hurting, its not alive, its a giant ball of minerals. you cant "hurt" minerals

Then of course there is the technical argument. exceptions for this and that... and oh, that stupid equal protection thing again..

[Chuysmom]

quote:

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What is the Gaia Hypothesis? Named after the ancient Greek earth goddess, this theory imagines our planet as a living, breathing and self-regulating entity.

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By Leonardo Vintiñi


http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/7357/


It's more than wishful thinking that the earth breathes and bleeds. She grows, moans, gives life and takes it away. To my thinking it is sad to hear her described as a chunk of metal without a heart. This is not from my imagination, but the joy and awe that comes from being a part of nature. Some people would never notice the stars and clouds above our heads were it not for a concern about the weather. I'm aware that I dream, but this is not one of them...this is fact.


Carrie


"The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it." Galadriel - LOTR