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Here are a couple of animations that show how this roundabout would work.
{Sorry to you people on dialup}
http://www.azdot.gov/CCpartnerships/roun...outs_1.asp
http://www.azdot.gov/CCpartnerships/roun...outs_6.asp
The second animation is the most likely outcome.For a roundabout to work,courteous careful drivers would be required.There seems to be a great lack of either kind.
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Great graphics, Obie! I wasn't originally in the RAB camp when this issue first came up in the Puna CDP transportation working group. I had the same feeling about people here not understanding how to merge. But government statistics about their longterm safety and economy won me over.
Just think about what a traffic light is going to do there. Even Larry Brown, the Planning Dept. guy who lives in HPP, said that the only reason there are such numbers of drivers entering Hwy 130 at Shower Drive is because people go down Makuu, Paradise and Kaloli, then cut across to Shower to beat the backed-up traffic. Expect that to multiply unbelieveably when there is a traffic light physically stopping the traffic flow. And there are already scary numbers of people totally ignoring traffic lights.
I hafta tell you: I was kinda nervous about driving in rented cars in England and New Zealand with their RABs, even though I spent 3 years of childhood in England, being driven around by an alcoholic adult (scary in itself)! But guess what! I handled it easily, even with those crazy drivers pissed off at me because I wouldn't drive 100 KPH (something like 80 MPH).
Even if we do not accept RABs, I think an appeal to the police chief to do something to help the public learn merging is in order. One way would be to make sure everyone renewing his or her driver's license has to watch a video explaining the legal way merging is supposed to work and include graphics similar those in Obie's post above to show how. It would also be a good way to demonstrate RABs, which should be part of every driver's education since a driver's license is for driving in more places than Hawaii!
My frustration with the DOT final report to be discussed tonight is the report's basic premise stated in the first chapter is that the highway serves just the residential subdivisions of HPP, Ainaloa, and Orchidland! And that is a MINOR ARTERIAL ROAD!
It may be a "minor arterial road" in highway system legalese but it is the ONLY road available to the public all the way from Kalapana, Kapoho and Pahoa to a connecting highway for airlines, shipping, hospitals, et al.....in essence a 30-plus miles-long cul de sac! With more than a dozen significant subdivisions, including the 2 largest ones on the island!
It's amazing that the study is required to take into account the effect of the construction on the Hawaiian hawk and Hawaiian bat but not the TENS OF THOUSANDS OF HUMAN BEINGS this construction will impact! (I say tens of thousands because the study does not have any population figures more recent than 2005 and 2007).
Please turn out for the meeting, if only to demonstrate by our numbers in the audience to the DOT and hopefully, potential lawmakers in the audience, that the public is concerned and paying attention.
Thanks for your attention, and Malama pono, Frankie
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We have had some personal experience with roundabouts and liked them very much for their traffic flow improvements. We have had family members in both Washington state and Minnesota comment on improvements in safety and traffic flow after roundabouts replaced traffic light intersections. Personally I really dislike traffic lights on highways, going from 50-60 mph to a full stop because maybe just one person wants to get on. Series of lights along a highway restrict traffic so much that the point of having a highway is rather lost. Some of the most horrific traffic accidents are exactly at highway traffic light intersections for those reasons.
But what we personally like or dislike is not the fundamental question. Safety is basic and as far as I know Rob is right that the studies have reported significant improvements from implementing roundabouts. Well designed roundabouts, of course. Better traffic flow is just an excellent side benefit.
How about we turn off the insults to Puna people. The kind of invective expressed in this thread remind me of the churlish mainland politics. Let's drop it.
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I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear last night, Pete.
Truly, I wasn't insulting the people of Puna.
I love the people of Puna!
Merely making an observation about whoever-the-heck-it-is out there -- area-resident, off-islander, and tourist alike -- that's barreling top-speed down Highway #130 taking ridiculous/lethal chances with folks' lives.
They're snoozy, confused, otherwise-occupied, and/or out-of-it.
And throwing a roundabout into the rainy racy mix is simply asking for trouble.
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The roundabout seems to be well documented as safer than highway traffic lights. Unfortunately, people barrel down highways everywhere. We definitely know what happens when they notice anything too late, including traffic lights. Given that the actual, real evidence points to more safety with roundabouts than with traffic light-controlled intersections, the rational choice seems to go with what is documented to be better. This seems a little obvious. Puna people can learn how to handle new situations as well as any big group of people so we will all get through it. Encourage safe driving to family and friends. It helps.
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Well, I don't know what's specifically being insulting to Puna drivers above but I meant no disrespect or unkindness to anyone with my comments. If it's about my suggestion for lessons in merging, I say that in acknowledgement of the facts of life here since arriving in 1970, before there was an H-1, let alone H-2 and H-3.
My then-husband's secretary, Ms. Uehara, was going to the Mainland for the first time in her life (early 1970s). When she returned, she was full of wonder at the fact that you could get on one highway and drive all day on the same road. Then you could continue on it for several days!
I also had a Hilo friend at work in the late 70s who had never even traveled to the other side of this island. I know people to this day who have never been off this island. And I love them dearly and would hope not to insult them.
But most people born and raised here have never had the NEED to merge on Big Isle roads!
With the exception of the Puna end of Kilauea Avenue merging with Hwy 11 in Panaewa, there have not been ANY merge lanes in East Hawaii until the last few years!
Even on Oahu, merge lanes were only introduced with H-1 and the feds have been after the state DOT ever since because the H-1 merge lanes are way too short and DANGEROUS!
I can sit in my friend's condo and watch the vehicles pile up for H-1 on and off ramps and she tells me the state's blocked off the one closest to her home for the past 2 years while they try to study how to correct their merge design problems.
So I don't think it should be considered insulting to suggest we could all benefit from the authorities finding some way of helping all the driving public here learn and practice good merging techniques. It's still the merge lane from Kilauea Ave. onto Hwy 11 that scares the hell outta me. You're not even safe if you get all the way over into the left lane on Hwy. 11 because too many times, I've witnessed a driver in the right-hand lane forced over due to a driver refusing to practice safe merging from the Kilauea Ave. lane!
So, if I offended anyone, my apologies. But this merge issue's been on my mind for a while and it MERGED with the topic of RABs. Aloha, Frankie
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When roundabouts were proposed for Anchorage I was against them. Not just two lane roundabouts, either, but double roundabouts (a roundabout on one side of a freeway overpass directly connected to another roundabout on the other side of the overpass). I figured with all the ice on the roads, darkness, and frequent blowing snow obscuring visibility it was a sure recipe for disaster. Fortunately, the roundabouts --including several double roundabouts-- went in anyway despite the general outcry against them.
I was wrong about roundabouts being a mistake. With the roundabouts there was an immediate improvement in traffic flow and reduction in not only the number of accidents but the severity of accidents. Less choking exhaust in the air, too. Where traffic used to back up and move sluggishly now it flows smoothly.
Imho people in Alaska (where several huge military bases are located and there is a high percentage of aggressive young people on the road) drive far more aggressively than in Puna, yet the roundabouts work just fine even so -and Puna does not have Alaska's icy roads.
In my experience Puna would benefit from roundabouts on 130 rather than traffic lights.
Anchorage has simple decorative brickwork and flowerbeds in the traffic roundabouts, but this is rather a missed opportunity. Roundabouts provide a wonderful placement opportunity for big public art, such as bronze sculptures elevated on cement bases, which over time become beloved as local landmarks. Makes it easy to give driving directions, too. In Jakarta all you need to say is "just past Pizza Man" or "by Hansel & Gretel" or "just before Popeye the Sailor" and everyone knows exactly where you mean: the Soviet-style statues in honor of the petroleum industry, the youth monument, and the maritime industry are located in the center of traffic circles and quite distinctive.
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All creative work is derivative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcvd5JZkUXY
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Astonishing skill! This archer is a real-life Legolas and then some!
http://geekologie.com/2013/11/real-life-...rs-anc.php
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I think the following statement from malolo is the one that some of us found to be over the top for its invective:
"However! one of the busiest most-dangerous intersections in the Entire State of Hawai'i is no place for people (who are either flat-out-drunk /drugged-up/ perusing-a-map/ slapping-baby-#18-(or-is-it-19?)/ schloooping-to-almost-climax-their-boyfriend's-barely-etect-whactchamacallit/ taking-their-meds/ gobbling-their-Burger-King-Whopper/ putting-on-their-lipstick/ shaving-their-legs/adjusting-their-tongue-studs/ admiring-their-new-tattoos/ sexting-their-future-boyfriend/ blabbing-on-the-phone-to-their-sister-in-law/ trying-to-remember-what-side-of-the-roads-Americans-even-drive-on-left-or-right-fer-chrissakes!) to Practice/ Attempt/ Try-for-the-first-time/ Break-into-what-some-may-believe-to-be-the-answer-to-all-of-Puna's-traffic-woes!"
It was one heck of a sweeping indictment of those who live and drive in Puna, insulting doesn't even begin to cover it, and it doesn't really address the topic of roundabouts vs. stop lights. If these drivers really do dominate our roads, they aren't going to be coping any better with stop lights than roundabouts.
Carol
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
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There is probably not much chance of changing any opinion held on this subject, but here's my two cents worth:
In comparing roundabouts and traffic signals, bear in mind that roundabouts are not affected by power outages, and not subject to the ever rising cost of electricity and electronic parts. They are much more cost effective initially than signal lights, and ongoing are much simpler to maintain. I'm sure an electrical technician is paid more than someone cutting grass with a weed eater.
Statistically roundabouts have been proven to be safer for drivers, not only in reducing the number of accidents but also limiting the severity of those accidents which do occur.
If you are interested, here's a site giving some info regarding both options.
http://www.greenvillesc.gov/publicworks/...bouts.aspx
I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but it's worth a try.
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It may be my memories of SoCal after the Northridge Earthquake that places value on intersections that function when the power is out. Puna is earthquake country and if a massive traffic jam can be avoided Puna is a good place to avoid one.
If we find ourselves power out with collapsed buildings and injured people isn't it preferable to have an ambulance or EMT be able to get to you?
There is a parallel discussion underway at the Big Island Chronicle:
http://www.bigislandchronicle.com/?p=14628#comments
Assume the best and ask questions.
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