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Inevitably the codes became the demise of the industry. Most people don't realize that at the core of the current housing fiasco sit the newest building codes and municipal exactions and even though they may know those things exist, they don’t realize their guilt in the current issue. This alone was responsible for the high cost of housing, it was merely another form of exaction and greedy codes to sell more products that birthed the greed in illicit financing on overinflated house prices. They are all cut from the same cloth.
Now the industry sits in shambles, government has only addressed the most obvious reason for the failure but at the core sit the codes and municipal exactions that have not been addressed. We can expect no recovery in the construction industry until the fattened codes and exactions are removed from the equation also.
There is a glut of homes available on the market and until they are gone, we cannot hope to see the industry begin recovery and stricter financing will severely limit those qualified to buy the extremely expensive over built new homes.
Even after that has occurred (when and if) affordable homes will not be made because of the codes and the practice of municipal exactions. So we will sit stagnant for many years to come in this industry.
In the 1950’s we had a 40% building rate increase that has progressively receded to less than 10% growth even at the height of latest building boom. The reason for the decrease in construction throughout the years since the 1950’s is due to greedy building codes and municipal exactions that progressively drove the cost of housing ever higher and higher.
Now the State of Hawaii has adopted the IBC… why? Were they having people get crushed under substandard new buildings and having a vast number of fires from the old electrical codes and sickness caused by plumbing? Nope, nothing of the sort, so what inspired the adoption of the IBC…? It’s all cut from the same cloth.
So for now… here we’ll all sit for many years to come, waiting for “change”.
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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FYI, the IBC does not address "substandard buildings", only the new amended version of the County Building Code (Bill 270, Ord. 12-27). The IBC addresses "unsafe buildings" which is a lot different than substandard. Also, the IBC does not have jail as a possible remedy, only our new code. So, the State code is far better for us. See the forum section on Building in Puna.
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So I see this is an old post from 9/11? I'm guessing the bill passed and everyone living in tents are gonna be jailed, fined and prosecuted... Now what? They will buy another $20 dollar tarp and repeat the process? Whoohooo!
Yeah right. What are they gonna do? Come on to your PRIVATE property and tear down your home? Think Again...
I know on the mainland they make the property not fit for human occupancy and red tag it and the city turns off the power and water. Hard to live in a house with no running water or power/gas in the winter. So, if your on Solar and Catchments kinda hard to do that.
If they do come on your property and rip your shed down. I think any good lawyer will be chomping at the bit to get you to sue the state for pulling a stunt like that. With every one living in a tent/tarp that got ripped down on their private property suing the city for millions of dollars it's gonna be stopped in a hurry!
So now they are going to send people to jail for living in a shed/shack on property they own? Right........ Where are they going to get all the jail space? Heck! Where are they gonna get all the man power to come out and serve everyone?
Think about it... They don't have the man power to frigen look over a Permit (that people paid for) now your telling me they are going to come up with tons of cash to support this bill to have people drive out and try this??? It's never gonna happen. Too many shacks ... Where are they gonna find the money?
Oh well.... They can barely find the money to send a cop down the road when you get robbed! Sheesh wake up people. This a a scare tactic from hell that has no backing.
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It is just a matter of time, it's happen in N.J. read this story.
Have you read the Executive Order signed on 3/16/2012?
Keep pretending everything is just fine..when it's not..look around..really see the world for what it has become.
http://www.businessinsider.com/lakewood-...011-9?op=1
quote:
Originally posted by ericlp
So I see this is an old post from 9/11? I'm guessing the bill passed and everyone living in tents are gonna be jailed, fined and prosecuted... Now what? They will buy another $20 dollar tarp and repeat the process? Whoohooo!
Yeah right. What are they gonna do? Come on to your PRIVATE property and tear down your home? Think Again...
I know on the mainland they make the property not fit for human occupancy and red tag it and the city turns off the power and water. Hard to live in a house with no running water or power/gas in the winter. So, if your on Solar and Catchments kinda hard to do that.
If they do come on your property and rip your shed down. I think any good lawyer will be chomping at the bit to get you to sue the state for pulling a stunt like that. With every one living in a tent/tarp that got ripped down on their private property suing the city for millions of dollars it's gonna be stopped in a hurry!
So now they are going to send people to jail for living in a shed/shack on property they own? Right........ Where are they going to get all the jail space? Heck! Where are they gonna get all the man power to come out and serve everyone?
Think about it... They don't have the man power to frigen look over a Permit (that people paid for) now your telling me they are going to come up with tons of cash to support this bill to have people drive out and try this??? It's never gonna happen. Too many shacks ... Where are they gonna find the money?
Oh well.... They can barely find the money to send a cop down the road when you get robbed! Sheesh wake up people. This a a scare tactic from hell that has no backing.
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Read it, that articular talks about "public land" -- BIG difference.
The difference between public and private lands is huge. Your home is your castle. They would need to pull a warrant to even go in your home/shed/shack to arrest you.
Like a said, never going to happen.
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In the 1950’s we had a 40% building rate increase that has progressively receded to less than 10% growth even at the height of latest building boom. The reason for the decrease in construction throughout the years since the 1950’s is due to greedy building codes and municipal exactions that progressively drove the cost of housing ever higher and higher.
Wao, you are throwing logic out the window regarding building rates and housing costs. In the 50s we had the largest population growth in history. All us boomers were going to need housing as were returning veterans thus the building rate grew. But most of those houses still exist. There needs to come a point when building will be replacing existing housing that is unacceptable rather than new housing for a population with slowed growth. Building codes were not repsonsible for housing cost increases. Those reasons are far more complex and are economy related. Everything costs more and housing costs grew at a comparable rate. They are more dramatic as most often housing is our largest investment.
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Jackson is generally correct up until the mid 1990s. Previous to and following 1990 a long series of natural disasters experienced huge increases in costs of recovery. Trying to mitigate those costs has led to stringent building code improvements starting in Florida after Hurricane Andrew, moving to California after the Northridge Earthquake and then Louisiana after Katrina. And that doesn't mention floods, fires and tornadoes.
For hurricanes the problem is increased by the shear number of people building in dangerous areas near the shore.
Affordable housing no longer exists in California... a reason why many people have moved here where affordable housing is still abundant.
If one is to accept the premise that Climate Change will increase the number and intensity of natural disasters, which the government is doing based on the facts, then to a large degree the code improvements can be viewed as "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".
That does not mean that the code is perfect in all ways. The single biggest issue to me is that America's devotion to wood frame is part of the problem. Wood, as a building system, is fraught with problems and defects. The failure rate is extremely high. Which is why I, as a builder, abandoned it twenty years ago.
But I encourage people to complain. It is possible to affect local codes. But economic issues have two sides to the coin. One side is the effect in increases in building costs bourne by you. The other side of the coin are the costs to the taxpayer in bailing your ass out after the disaster has destroyed your home.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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Sorry to resurrect an old thread. (I see threads as dormant, never dead.)
I just wanted to reply to the last post by saying that I think that residential building codes are nothing more than a way for governments to collect money.
Codes for commercial buildings and public spaces? I get it. But if you're an owner-builder, you should be able to build whatever you want. When given options and education, people will never build something they believe will collapse on their heads. Earthbag buildings are an excellent, strong, fireproof, moldproof, termite-proof and cheap alternative to stick houses, but most jurisdictions will require you to get an exemption from the codes to be able to build it. (That is, you have to pay an engineer to stamp plans.) Add to that Hawaii's requirements for septic/plumbing that a simple greywater & composting paradigm would render unnecessary, and you've got $10,000+ in construction costs before you even clear the site. This is absurd.
There aren't really two sides to the coin. In a world without codes, you build a house the way you want. If it gets knocked over -- which is actually less likely using many "alternative" building methods -- you build it again. Easy and cheap. No taxpayer assistance needed.
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People don't know what they don't know and can do some really stupid things.
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Exactly: this forum is living proof.
