Public Safety Meeting at Leilani Community Center

[Monda]

Quote from Seeb "There is a saying "figures don't lie but lairs figure" and im not talkin about the rank and file but the management here is real creative with statistics, like the area someone can check the the exact #s but more than half of the big island is unihabited or federal. check the per population #s compared to the rest of the country.
they don't count fatalities on private roads but count those roads in their road miles and things that

If you want to look at statistics, its the number of women that go missing here and are never heard of again."

I don't want to change the subject, but I had noticed that there are an extraordinary number of people reported missing on this relatively unpopulated island. I suppose some of them run away, but it seems to me there has to be a bigger story here...

I am deeply disturbed by the letter written regarding the dogs...I live in Hawaiian Parks and we've just recently stopped walking our dog due to similar encounters (big dogs in the street, threatening our dog). Luckily, we've never been attacked, but with lots of big unfriendly dogs running loose, it's bound to happen to someone.

[missydog1]

Someone I know who has been involved in the justice system here for many years, told me that some of the missing people are CI's (confidential informants). Said that there are some very serious bad guys in Puna dealing drugs, and the police like to turn small busts into snitch relationships.

This is nothing exotic, kind of routine to do this, but I was told that these snitches when caught are dealt with ... well, executed and disappeared in the jungle. Also mentioned about how the tagline of needing medication is always thrown in there as a reason to look for people.

But that probably doesn't account for the missing women.

Loose dogs scare the crap out of me, the police shouldn't have ignored it.
When there is an injury complaint, the police shouldn't have to be foiled because the owners won't answer the door.

RIP Marc Hansen, another fine musician gone (Hansen & Raitt)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_2nxZ3Wrqw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTReV9kDS3I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRTULLjILAg&feature=related
http://web.me.com/cayurt/Yurt_People/history.html

[Carey]

I am sure I am not the only one who has noticed that there are some things where there seems to be too many officers (we had a neighbor who called the police when there was a break-in to her house that happen while she was away on vacation...the call was almost a week after the incident & 7 patrol cars showed up.... she was more intimidated by that response than the realization that her house had been enterred....and the street coconut wireless was all abuzz on the reason there were 7 cars at her house...)

This was also not just a case of "unacceptable levels of property crimes", but there was an injury... somehow it seems like the officers put more effort into trying to 'be nice' & trying to contact the dog owner, rather than citing them in the first place....

Part of the problem also is that even when the officers do write tickets (including the 'click it or ticket' & wide tire issues) there seems to be a lack of follow through, most of the tickets I have heard about are just suspended, with NO court fees or anything... stuff like that can be the anti-motivating for any patrol officer... and would definitely cause the hesitation to do anything with the court system (think about it, you go through all of the trouble to go through the paper work & such, only to have it all suspended, usually with a letter to the judge...and nothing to show change of behavior!)

[Obie]

I was told by a community police officer that they don't cite people for barking,loose, aggressive dogs because the judge always throws out the cases for lack of evidence.

How much time do you think they should spend on dogs? Should they take DNA tests ? How about mug shots ?

When we have open murder cases, hundreds of property crimes, auto accidents and on and on, how much time should be spent on dogs ?

In the incident presented here, the officer should have been able to pull out his gun,shoot the dog and throw into the owners yard.

Case Closed !!

[LeeE]

Mahalo, James. See you there.

Lee Eisenstein
http://members.cruzio.com/~lionel/event

[punafish]

I agree with Carey: if we are short on police, then why the hell do they all hang out together in one spot? I often see 3 police cars driving together; I also saw two police officers a couple weeks ago "supervising" construction work on the road several days ago, a job that the construction company could have assumed. Should construction be a priority for our men in blue?

If dogs are threatening and attacking people, it should be a priority. Playing armchair Police commissioner here (while knowing absolutely nothing about managing a police force , this would be my hierarchy of priorities in terms of response times based on examples cited above:

1) Murder cases/missing persons--get there and gather evidence while it's still warm
2) Assault cases--whether the attacker is a dog or a human, the victim is still hurting--probably more when tangling with a dog
3) Accidents and Preventive Drunk Driving Measures--more routine than the 3 above, so will and should take most of the officers' time
4) Property crimes (assuming no assault)

If the victim can show the police where the dog is and identify the dog and its owner, why would we need a DNA test?

The owner is responsible for his/her dog. Call me old fashioned, but I say hold 'em responsible.

Mug shots? LOL.

[JerryCarr]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carey
[br This was also not just a case of "unacceptable levels of property crimes", but there was an injury... somehow it seems like the officers put more effort into trying to 'be nice' & trying to contact the dog owner, rather than citing them in the first place....

---

Thank you, Carey. This particular incident comes under the heading of "grievous bodily harm." The property crimes are indeed unacceptable, but this is way beyond that. I'm actually a fan of a lot of the individual police officers around here, and I understand the limitations and obstacles that they face every day. There is, however, a lack of independent accountability function in the way the police handle their under-performing officers. That's why we need an independent police commission with teeth instead of the powerless body we currently have.

[missydog1]

I also feel the "all or none" thing with patrol cars is a bit much. A couple things might mitigate.
1) Officers here typically are driving alone instead of with partners, and they need back-up for stops and calls because ... they might get shot ... I'm guessing they put out a call for back up and get multiple responses. (it's a theory only)

2) Officers are allowed to work off-duty, in uniform, driving their own cars, so some of the times you see them they may not be on shift with the department. I know that they do escort service to extra wide vehicles while NOT on duty. They are moonlighting, which is an accepted practice AFAIK.

With certain types of crimes, if they start enforcing them with vigor, it will take more resources at first, but after the word gets out that such behavior as dog owners is no longer tolerated, people would shape up. People tend to change their behavior when they expect consequences (if they aren't hardened criminal types). So yeah, I think they should go after dogs that attack hard and let it be known that they will.

RIP Marc Hansen, another fine musician gone (Hansen & Raitt)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_2nxZ3Wrqw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTReV9kDS3I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRTULLjILAg&feature=related
http://web.me.com/cayurt/Yurt_People/history.html

[Obie]

The police should not be used to answer animal control issues.

We need an animal control officer and deputies.Their salaries should be supported by the fines they collect.
If your dog is running loose,you get a ticket.
If your dog is a vicious menace,it gets impounded!!

If you call 911 a police officer should respond quickly !!If you have 4 officers on duty at any one time in lower Puna,it would be hard to have them respond to anything promptly.

[csgray]

The question is when does it stop being an animal control issue and turn into a public safety issue?

Some people use their aggressive dogs as weapons of intimidation and as a way to control what should be shared public spaces in their neighborhood. The average animal control officer is not trained or paid to deal with those kinds of situations, and the public has the right to use public spaces without the threat of being mauled by a vicious dog. Someone's free running or poorly trained pet is a matter for animal control officers, but a pack of aggressive territorial dogs being used to dominate a neighborhood is a whole other matter.

Carol