When, not If lava crosses 130...

[TomK]

Super8 - how do you get the lava into your "tube" in the first place?

[ericlp]

http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/maps/uploads/image-79.jpg

Latest map... and back on the subject for this thread. That is if anyone cares.

Looks like it's slowly creeping forward.

[kalakoa]

quote:

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And whether or not it was a good idea or a spectacularly bad one, the Puna subdivisions were conceived as rural bedroom communities for Hilo, not as the beginning of a new hub.

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Fine. Where's the cloverleaf interchange in Keaau, with six lanes to Hilo and four lanes to Pahoa and Volcano?

What's that? Puna doesn't pay enough taxes to afford the privilege of driving to Hilo for everything? OK, fine, allow Puna some commercial development...

Wait, Puna shouldn't be developed because it's in a lava plain? OK, fine, cease all development and stop issuing building permits...

[csgray]

The Puna subdivisions were conceived of as a money making scheme with no thought that anyone would actually live here, not as bedroom communities of Hilo. How the original developers conceived them is beside the point, they permitted the creation of over 100,000 lots, that is no bedroom community for a city that has only reached 40,000.

The point is people are here now, as many as live in Hilo, and soon there will be more than live in Hilo, so this population needs to at least have a workable evacuation plan. If Mauna Loa erupts you know damn well there would be a plan in place for even Kaumana City, which is a true bedroom community of Hilo.

The argument that "Those people chose to live on a live volcano so they do not deserve services, plus they don't pay enough taxes to justify services" is garbage, because other than the northernmost districts that is true of everyone on this island, including Kailua Kona where plenty of tax money is spent on infrastructure that is in the path of an inevitable future eruption, including an airport.

Carol

[Super8]

quote:

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Originally posted by KathyH

I am no expert on valuations, but to those who say a taxpayer is a taxpayer, well, itÔs not that the poor donÔt deserve, but there is nothing wrong with the service being somewhat proportional to what is paid. In many ways, those who pay less do benefit from the higher taxes paid by others. IÔm not one who believes in too much angst over getting exactly what my taxes are buying. (Kind of futile.)

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My husband worked on some of the early building in HPP. He was a carpenter at the time. This was 1976. He remembers how it was visualized, as a suburb of Hilo that would cost less to live in as a trade-off for a longer commute (and fewer services). People knew what they were buying.

As for the land down near Kalapana, he called those the "lava lands" that were for people to buy cheap who were OK with having land that would go back to the volcano. This was before Kilauea started its current eruption, but still people knew what was likely to happen and that was why the land was so darned cheap.

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I see what you are saying and I agree with most of it. If HPP was to be a bedroom community for Hilo, after all these years and with the size of the lots, for those folks to not have clean water and septic, it's criminal. I imagine people who chose HPP were expecting to have their infrastructure upgraded, eventually. Just look at how many lots there are. That's absolutely laid out to be a suburb. You can't subsistence farm, catch water, have private septic and build a house all on one lot! The way I see it, those people invested and at a certain point, especially when populations reach a certain limit, the county ought to be obligated to help run those services and not just sit and collect tax dollars. So then, it comes down to what people really want. With services, values go up and so do taxes. If people are asking for more infrastructure, I think they are accepting the fact that taxes will be reassessed and be higher. And I really think they ought to put in more roads for emergency personnel.

More cops? IMHO People ought to be able to, can and certainly must govern themselves. I'm like Wao nahele kane, Armed Citizens do provide the security of a Free state, and people tend to be much more "polite." Wao is representative of someone who obviously values his or her life, thinks it worth being protected, and will fight for the right to live if push comes to shove and I respect that in any person. That's the kind of neighbor I would want. I can trust that they are aware of the real value of life, nature, property, and freedom. That is opposed to someone who would just roll over and die. Not that I have anything against cops per se, I come from a line of of 'em, I just don't think it's wise nor, should I have to rely on them.

Better fire departments and EMS, yes. Absolutely. Roads? Yes, main thoroughfares. Ease up congestion and have alternate routes. From there on in, it's up to the subdivisions.

Personally, the more any government leaves me alone, the better. I have this aversion to micromanagement, especially by people soo keen at screwing things up, they could ruin a wet dream.

I chose to buy lava land. I don't expect the county to come out and pave me a road, run me water, septic, or electric. Or even send the cops, fire dept. or EMS. Don't want it. I'll even pay the land tax which is fair, but that's the very end of what I think is fair. If the subdivision filled up, then I think expectations for those services would change. Which would suck for me.

I guess I'm just saying as time goes on, things ought to change for the better. I'm also saying that when the county has property, especially roads going to pot, all I see is JOBS and WORK. I don't know, I guess I'd have to see a revenue and expenditures break down.
At the very least, if 130 is cut off, the county is obligated to build alternate roads.


Wao nahele kane, about the blocks, we will see. I'll let you know.

TomK, That's a toughy. I heard General G.S. Patton tried bombing the lava at one point, is that true? You'd have to go at it with a horizontal approach straight into Pu'u O'o right to where the natural lava tube enters the crater, obviously the lower in elevation from mean sea level, the better. AGAIN, I AM NOT RECOMMENDING BLASTING! I am all for DEXPAN. You wouldn't have to drill all the way into the lava tube feeding Pu'u O'o. Just enough to weaken a wall and let the pressure and molten lava do the rest.

I know it sounds impossible, but it's not. Just right now, people collectively lack the will to do it. When it's in their backyards threatening to burn their houses down, it would be given some more thought. I'd love to be able to work on this and get it done. It would be one amazing job and I'd be proud to take the lead on it. When someone says "hey, we need this done," I'll raise my hand with a solution, but the real problem is just about everybody thinks it's impossible either flat out or so impractical it might as well be impossible. When I pop my blocks out, I'll show that it's not only possible, but easy if you know how.

[Chunkster]

quote:

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Originally posted by csgray

The Puna subdivisions were conceived of as a money making scheme with no thought that anyone would actually live here, not as bedroom communities of Hilo.

Carol

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This is the real truth. The developers saw the subdivisions as a gimmick to get mainlanders to buy lots to be able to say they owned a place in Hawaii. The county went along with it because the lots would bring in more tax money than the marginal agricultural lands they were taxed as before. The developers walked away with their money, and the county was amazed when people actually started living there. Rather than force a retro-fit to meet standards early on when it would have been more cost effective, the county chose to build the elaborate system of excuses and bizarre zoning that has kept things in check up until now. Like Rob Tucker says, this should be a whole separate thread of its own.

[hikatz]

Three links about Hawaii the Volcano Bombings

http://fly.historicwings.com/2012/12/volcano-bombing/ 1935

Scroll to the end of the article, it mentions Lt. Col. Patton planned the military operation in support of Dr. Jaggar's concept.

http://pacificislandparks.com/2011/04/02...-eruption/ 1942

http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/events/departme...a-volcano/

[hikatz]

Excellent article on the Kapoho eruption that was printed in the Honolulu Magazine 1985

http://vhca.info/1959.htm

[Wao nahele kane]

quote:

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Originally posted by ericlp

http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/maps/uploads/image-79.jpg

Latest map... and back on the subject for this thread. That is if anyone cares.

Looks like it's slowly creeping forward.

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What's it been, 4-5 days since the last update this time?

That was a normal update interval. Nm. 6 miles outside Pahoa, interesting.

[Obie]

This is from today's report :

"At the middle east rift zone, the Pu`u `O`o vent continued feeding the Kahauale`a 2 lava flow whose distal end remained active and burning forest to the northeast but HAD NOT ADVANCED SUBSTANTUALLY for several months. Gas emissions remained elevated."

emphasis added