Monday Town Hall with Ruggles

[dan d]

After shes gone,can we lock and throw away this thread,and mis ruggles and dr sai.
Nough allready.


HPP

[MarkP]

"Under Hawaiian Kingdom law as a constitutional monarchy..."

What monarchy, the one set up "illegally" at the point of a spear?

"How is this situation going to be remedied and what is the final outcome?"

That's a poser if you look too closely at how the monarchy itself came about.

"Get rid of all nation states since the dawn of the agricultural revolution?"

Not sure how this helps. Like communism there are some ideas that just aren't practical given human nature.

[BillyB]

"In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes" Andy Warhol

Two seconds left.

[glinda]

did Kamehameha have the proper treaties when he slaughtered and murdered to take control of the islands?

Probably not. But back then the winner wrote the rules.. now that we have the internet everyone wants a say.

And btw.. not everyone went with king kam. The idea that everyone fell in line is, like so many other things about the island's history, a haole construct.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

The idea that everyone fell in line is, like so many other things about the island's history, a haole construct.

What happened to those who didn't fall into line?

"I want great climate, we’re going to have that.” President Donald J. Trump, while viewing the massive wildfire devastation 11/17/18. (The J stands for Jenius)

[MarkP]

"The idea that everyone fell in line is, like so many other things about the island's history, a haole construct."

Then what are we arguing about? The monarchy wasn't a "done deal"? Please forward this information to those who are blocking the TMT among other things because the overthrow was unjust, immoral, and fattening.

For the record I believe that the monarchy was a done deal then, but I think that statehood is a done deal now. Yes, some of the reasons for both are disturbingly similar but then so are the excuses.

[TomK]

Glinda wrote:

"Probably not. But back then the winner wrote the rules.. now that we have the internet everyone wants a say."

You mean like you?

[riversnout]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MarkP

...but I think that statehood is a done deal now...

---

Doesn't it rub you the wrong way? You are actually OK with the chamber of commerce proclaiming they are the new government because they have US marines backing them up? Done deal? Why bother? sad.

[MarkP]

Sad, yes but what's your point? No more or less sad than when Kamehameha "unified" the islands under his rule and proclaimed that he was the new government. Many things that are un-fixable rub me the wrong way. ***SNOOTY RHETORICAL QUESTION WARNING*** Why do you ask?

I mean, you glossed right over the monarchy being the product of a violent campaign of war as though it were not established fact.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Done deal? Why bother? sad.

I was born in a state that was taken from Native Americans with broken treaties. I moved to Hawaii, not knowing much of it’s history, but enough to know it was probably not much different than the other 49 states. Do we all stop in our tracks, try and find the rightful rulers and heirs, who no longer exist, and as we’ve seen, pretty much everyone makes claim to ali’i status, few view themselves as simple royal subjects living under an intricate system of Kapu, or worse, as a menehune from previous voyages?

To return to the past would we all become census takers, ancestry researchers, lawyers, judges, administrators, etc - - with no one left to grow food, or build anything? We'd descend into a hell of arbitration, of our own design, and for what? For the human race to go backwards hundreds or thousands of years? Can you imagine the point from which we would start over? It’s far less a point of fairness and righteousness, it’s more like time travel and science fiction without the science, or most horrifically the fiction.

Think about the massive effort that would be required. Think about the outcome. When I consider the implications, I liken it to a car that’s been stolen. The police call and say “we found your car.” You imagine it just as you left it. You’ll put your keys in the ignition and drive home. Instead, you arrive to find a stripped, burnt out hulk, and all you’re left with are the towing fees.

"I want great climate, we’re going to have that.” President Donald J. Trump, while viewing the massive wildfire devastation 11/17/18. (The J stands for Jenius)