Hello Mr. Wolf, won't you please sit down?

[Rob Tucker]

Jay, a question for you... when you say above

"Discussing all that here isn't appropriate, and I respect that."

What do you mean? What part of discussing weather records for Puna is not appropriate?

[JWFITZ]

Perhaps I've misread the intent of Stevens post, regardless at this moment in history one won't be able to find a single credible current paper concerning a summery of climate and weather data that discusses the data in absence of a global climate change context. Extreme weather will certainly be discussed in a climate change context. Whether that the UH, or NOAA, or the USDA, NASA, or anyone else, climate change is stamped all over the data. It's far too obvious in the data to ignore, and no one does. Climate change is a topic beyond the scope of Puna, for sure, and besides that, meaningful responses to the climate change issue is an issue that many here find depressing and distressing or combative at worst, and I've personally decided that it's probably not constructive to raise such issues here. It's a bit like showing up at the church picnic with the intent to discuss Darwin and Ozzy Osborne, which in spite of the legitimate merits of both would prove to be a bit boorish. If I'm wrong about that, and there is a real interest, sorry about that, because I'm certain the issue is important. In the past such topics have produced little but bait for trolls, which then proceed to move on to other topics and do their trolling there.

There's been a good deal of complaining about the tone of Punaweb lately, and how the "church picnic" vibe has been disrupted by negativity, some real, some imagined, some legitimate, but nonetheless I want to be sensitive to that and constructively move those conversations elsewhere where it may prove to be less challenging to some.

Here's the current data I follow on my sites. It's pretty neutral.

http://drought.unl.edu/dm/monitor.html

[anela1111]

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=7906041&page=1

Digest this, watch the video all about our SUN aka GOD

[Rob Tucker]

Okay Jay, I think you are misconstruing my intent with Punaweb and the goal here is not a church picnic by any means. I should perhaps start a new topic on this because it seems to be confusing some people insofar as Punaweb is intended to be for discussion of things Puna and Hawaiian.

In the shortest way I will say that if you or anyone can find a rational straight line between the Eiffel Tower and Puna then by all means feel free to explore it. But if you only want to discuss France and the War of the Roses then please take it somewhere else.

As I launched Punaweb years back I was discouraged by the lack of civil discourse in our national politic and I was, and I remain, determined to not have PW devolve on similar lines. I am only mildly concerned if some noses get out of joint on that basis. But I would encourage people to not inflate a rather simple premise.

More on this subject soon on a separate topic. But Steven's inquiry was simple, clear, strait forward and very Puna.

Not now, I have things to do.

[JWFITZ]

I think clarifications would help us.

If I misread Stevens post--clear and straightforward enough for sure, but in a thread of 200 some posts where at least a quarter of the discussion material was directly related to climate change--and the conversation between he and I in most cases directly related to climate change, it's not too big of a jump to see why I assumed his last post was related to climate change too. Even if it isn't, the answer is. Please accept that if it's a misreading it's an honest mistake and in no way any attempt to try to drum up stink or trouble or make sly points about anyone or anything.

Really, to me it's more of a simple matter that people here have simply spoken that these sorts of issues are things they don't want to hear about. And that's fine. At some point a person needs to recognize that pressing an issue isn't constructive anymore, and I'm done pressing the issue.

[Rob Tucker]

Then I am certainly missing something. This topic, started by you, has probably set the PW record for replies (274 at this point) and views (11,919 as of now).

And your conclusion is that this topic is not of sufficient interest to our members.........????????

I am indeed missing something really, really basic. Is it your implication that it's not practical or reasonably possible to discuss a topic like climate change and somehow keep it related to Hawaii or Puna? I sense that. Correct me if I'm wrong please because it seems like a very simple thing to do.

[JWFITZ]

It's very difficult to keep conversations about, for example, climate change local, except in the most trivial and hypothetical manner. If the focus shifts from merely talking about it to attempting to do something to prevent it, it's utterly impossible to keep it a local issue.

At this moment in history, my god, what really even is local? You can buy/sell/fly anywhere in the world with a click of a button and most anyone else can do that here too. Hawaii in particular is the crossroads of the Pacific and a place especially where broad influence play.

But more to the point, the fact that this particular thread has generated interest doesn't mean it's been constructive. That we'd fall into factionalism as the economic situation worsened was the initial premise. This has been borne out as valid. If my contributions have unnecessarily contributed to that, I'm very sorry indeed. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't. It's also generated some good and a hell of a lot of sweet potatoes. Still, we're all judged at the end of the day by results. The jury is out on all that.

[Rob Tucker]

Okidoki

[AlohaSteven]

Ah!

Thanks, JWFITZ and Rob, for the enlightening to and fro discussion. Now I understand what Jay was apprehensive about regarding how things were perhaps being taken, and it does make sense. Raining on other folks' picnic is not particularly mannerly or couth, if one is making an effort to do so. That would be mean-spirited and wrong, in my playbook.

In the Burning Man community the concept of "gifting" is very important. Trouble is, some people want to give gifts which others do not want to receive, so in the Burner community the understanding has been reached that an item or service or performance or whatever is only a gift if it is both given _and_ received as a gift. This concept is either utterly lost on trolls or they delight in violating the principle. Taking care to not impose something unwanted on others in a trollish manner is an effort worth making.

The significant difference in this situation as I see it is some Punaweb discussion threads are all rainbows, sunbeams, and cute duckies while others are more oriented toward data, rigor, and wading through anxiety-provoking issues; one can simple opt out of clicking on and reading the discussion threads for whichever flavor holds no appeal. Clicking in and reading is a choice each reader makes, nobody is thrusting it on anyone else. A thread such as Wolf is solidly established as being a sounding board for those interested in such aspects; clearly, based on results, it must offer enough value for quite a number of folks to continue sharing info via this discussion.

Personally, even though I do not closely follow discussion threads which hold little traction for me they are still interesting and educational in the sense they show me how other people in the community think and what they are thinking about. I do try to read outside of my narrow areas of interest as often as I can and so broaden my awareness and thinking about local Puna issues (...and all roads do lead to Puna if one is awake to the points of connection). In a narrower "special focus" forum much of that diversity of contrasting perspectives and opposing viewpoints is lost. Also, without a big general entry-level forum like Punaweb in which to find the smaller sub-communities of interest (e.g., potters, special events, hardcore horticulturalists, etc) it could be difficult for a person to efficiently locate the key contact people and tap into those more focused circles. Punaweb serves useful services in these regards, just as the smaller and more focused forums do for their purposes.



)'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'(

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

Pres. John Adams, Scholar and Statesman


"There's a scientific reason to be concerned and there's a scientific reason to push for action. But there's no scientific reason to despair."

NASA climate analyst Gavin Schmidt

)'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'( )'(

[mella l]

Here is a site that might answer the weather question.

http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/weather.php3?s=058219&refer=

mella l