Posts: 1,930
Threads: 71
Joined: Jun 2012
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
ALL energy is artificially priced, subsidized, and laden with "policy taxation". There is no "PV equivalent rate cost" unless all sources are subsidized to the same degree. Ideally, eliminate both the artificial subsidies and the taxes that fund them; let the market decide.
You are totally wrong here. It may be an argument that ACC is a subsidy but it technically has been removed by the state, so it no longer exists (it will take awhile for the contracts to expire). The biomass fuel plant at Pepeekeo gets no subsidy whatever, is being financed by private investors and will have a rate cost tied to industry rates which is about 15 to 20 cents per kw-hr, including their profit. The hydroelectric, while being small, is the same. No government subsidy, no extra utility fees, the plants were put in by private investors (sugar cane plantations) and the industry rate for hydroelectric is about 8 to 11 cents per kw-hr, with profit. Geothermal is the same. There is no government subsidy for it, no extra utility fees, the plant is put in place by private investors, and right now, the 8MW non-ACC rate is 10 cents per kw-hr, with profit. Geothermal stands out from all the other indigenous alternative energy sources as the only one paying royalties to the government.
In fact, the only indigenous alternative energy sources being massively subsidized by government tax and utility fees are solar, wind and biodiesel. And the reason HELCO/HEI heavily backs these is they all hold the potential to raise rates. If the subsidies on solar are heavily reduced, then that means the solar farms will cost much more to install and HELCO will pass that on with rate increases. Making these 3 alternative energies top priorities will lead to higher electric rates.
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
Posts: 14,118
Threads: 424
Joined: Aug 2012
My point (to the extent that it matters) is that solar/wind have to be subsidized to be competitive against all the existing subsidies -- these are often written as indecipherable "tax code", but no energy sources are "priced" to match their real "cost".
Oil and gas companies get massive tax breaks. Coal gets a "free pass" on pollution. Solar panels, too: global "free trade" means someone else can suffer the byproducts of manufacture. Geothermal facilties don't have to "buy" the land (and I somehow doubt they pay "property taxes") because they get magical leases from the state. Wind farms seem to be mostly on private property; I suspect these aren't so much about "energy" as they are about "greenwashing the power monopoly".
It's interesting that the "non-ACC" costs mentioned above are higher than the retail price of electricity in some markets; perhaps the solar subsidies are more meaningful there.
Posts: 2,490
Threads: 222
Joined: Dec 2005
18kW a day?????? Wow... I'm lucky to eeek out 2KW a day MAX. I feel I am not skimping on power to do it. As my computer monitor is a 47" and I have a full size refrigerator with an ice maker.
I thought I was Energy Pig! OINK!
I think get em while you can is bunk. I believe next year there will be even higher efficiency panels at 50 cents a kw. Maybe even cheaper. As technology grows... Prices are gonna drop. Obama is going to extend the tax rebates and maybe even up the rebate for everyone. This is just the beginning... Solar is going to continue it's march on higher wattage panels for cheaper prices.
As for battery maintenance and newbies battery banks only lasting a year... Well, maybe in 2000 that might of been the case. With newer charge controllers where you can set your system to warn you to start turning off TV's, Lights and other things before you discharge them down to 70%. Solar is getting smarter and with cheap LCD's screens with simple graphic read out's it's almost idiot proof these days to destroy a battery.
Posts: 255
Threads: 7
Joined: May 2006
If the government and powers at be wanted us to have afforable power, they would not imposes huge tarrifs on affordable chinese solar products.
Posts: 2,490
Threads: 222
Joined: Dec 2005
Maybe they should just give the tax rebates to american made products? Anyway... the tariffs are imposed to level the playing field because China was dumping solar panels on the market below it's cost to kill american business's. It really has nothing to do with the consumer. China did it to themselves. Canada makes excellent cheap panels you can buy from solarworld...
Posts: 255
Threads: 7
Joined: May 2006
C'mon, dig deeper! Try and prove what the US and Europe have claimed about the Huge Subsidies. My research showed that Chinese Officials very seldom give any tax breaks or subsidies to any of their companies. The truth I found was that the companies that did receive help (only 2 companies) and was in the form of a tax subsidy and only ranged from 2.90 percent to 4.73 percent. Please Don't believe what they tell you, investigate things on your own.
2.90 percent to 4.73 percent cheaper solar panel is not going to put anybody out of business and is not worthy of the 36% tarrif being imposed by the Commerse Department on all imported Chinese solar panels.
Ask yourself who is making the real money here? Keep thinking for yourself and don't buy the crap they say. Do your own research.
As for buying Canadian panels? No thanks, I've already got my Chinese panels that are 24v 240w and were under $250 each.
Posts: 14,118
Threads: 424
Joined: Aug 2012
Not all subsidies are monetary; a US PV factory would have to comply with expensive regulations on the disposal of their manufacturing byproducts.
Posts: 2,490
Threads: 222
Joined: Dec 2005
not gonna get into that argument. Enjoy your cheap Chinese made panels.
Posts: 337
Threads: 22
Joined: Jan 2011
Hi all, we finally decided to go with grid-tie system for ease of use and leave maintenance to whomever we get the system from.
We use about average 220 KW month through Helco currently.
We have spoken with 3 companies so far. Sun Run, Sun Rayes and Pro Vision.
Does anyone have anything to say (good or bad) about any of these companies?
I am interested in their maintenance and cost.
Again, thanks plenty for your advise.
Posts: 19
Threads: 3
Joined: Apr 2010
If you would like grid-tie references for Solar Rayes, then please call or email and I can send them to you.
Our aim is customer satisfaction.
Mahalo
968-1484 solarrayes@gmail.com
