Posts: 1,595
Threads: 111
Joined: May 2007
Solar power, Generators that burn locally produced bio fuel, hydrogen, and mini "grids" will never replace the expensive, high maintenance, and centuries old Power grid. Think of all the barrels of oil we save when thousands of customers are affected by an outage.
The traditional grid also ensures that control and profit remain where it belongs; with Corporate America. We can't have common folk taking charge of things they know nothing about. It's not like there's a magic source of knowledge and experience just floating through the airwaves for people to access.
This new "wireless" phone thing is another example of ineffective technology. We need our phones to be hardwired to mile upon dependable mile of a solid wire "Grid". If something breaks, they just stick the wires back together, right? What possible advantage could there be to carrying a phone around with you everywhere you go, anyway?
Like there will always be sarcasm, there must always be a grid.
[  ]
Posts: 14,083
Threads: 424
Joined: Aug 2012
Technical problem: the island doesn't really have a "grid", it's more like a bunch of "loops" or "spurs", very similar to the way in which most subdivisions have just a few roads (and in some cases, only one) to the highway. Many "single points of failure" in either case.
Regulatory problem: only HELCO can sell power across a TMK boundary, making it "illegal" for a small community to build their own micro-grid -- while you might argue that a power co-op isn't technically a "sale", HELCO has the money, lawyers, and political connections to make sure you're wrong.
Posts: 210
Threads: 19
Joined: Apr 2009
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
Regulatory problem: only HELCO can sell power across a TMK boundary, making it "illegal" for a small community to build their own micro-grid -- while you might argue that a power co-op isn't technically a "sale", HELCO has the money, lawyers, and political connections to make sure you're wrong.
I find this incredibly sad; I'm sure you're right though. We're (us humans) once again shooting ourselves in the foot. I know of a couple communities on the mainland that have opted for communal solar as a power source, and it's working really well for those people. It's frustrating to be chained to someones bank account, with no choice in the matter (as a community). Unless of course there's very deep pocketses available.
-- rainshadow
-- rainshadow
Posts: 2,481
Threads: 10
Joined: Feb 2008
I have been stumbling along building up the inside of a container to be semi-habitable. Everything about my project has been bass-ackward and inefficiently done. If I did things right I would have payed my SSPP and gotten temp power in first thing.
I have now spent going on $3,000 on my solar set-up which is about what my SSPP would have cost. Being into it this far I am reluctant to buy into the system at this point although it still might be the smart economic choice compared to my initial penny-wise and pound-foolish approach. I am limited on both my solar input and my battery storage so am "highly motivated to conserve". If necessary I can run the generator but I avoid doing so because it is noisy, messy, costly, and generally a bother.
Total cost so far: $3,000.
Impact on my daily lifestyle: Considerable.
Freedom from the grid: Priceless.
By being a bumbling idiot and a cheapskate I have acclimated myself to a level of power demand that I can realistically meet with a seat of the pants system. If numerous households do the same we will soon be a force to be reckoned with. It may come to a point where it is a toss-up for a new customer whether to go solar or connect to the grid such that HELCO may for example drop the whole SSPP thing in an attempt to attract new customers. Think about how newspapers have been affected by the explosion of electronic media. Every now and then I still get a call from the newspaper attempting to browbeat me into signing up. I have to tell them NO in a stern voice.
Posts: 1,930
Threads: 71
Joined: Jun 2012
IDG has a computer simulation video of a proposed typical geothermal plant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_oxOYbQhv4
IDG Geothermal Animation
It emphasizes the safety. First thing, they are not going to drill through a fresh water aquifer. The aquifer sedimentary level at the surface is protected by the drill casing from the deep ground geothermal brine. The aquifer the geothermal well is penetrating is a superheated *BRINE* aquifer. Nobody is going to be bringing brine aquifer water to the surface to desalinate it for drinking water. It shows the *NATURAL FRACTURING* that is going on in the Earth's crust at those levels, far below any sedimentary layers. It also shows the geothermal well pipe going into the geothermal brine aquifer, far above the magma. The well pipe never gets close to molten lava and nowhere near the temperature to melt steel-titanium alloy. For science sake, this is steam technology here, not nuclear rocket science.
Nobody is against solar. Solar is not baseload power, it has an equivalent hourly rate of 35 cents per kilowatt-hour, and it is nowhere close to being "green" if the place the panels were manufactured were included, places that need 24/7/365 baseload power, BTW. The electric rate now is due to ACC, this has been pointed out repeatedly. Geothermal power industry rate is about 10 cents per kilowatt-hour and that is with profit to the power supplier. Over time, geothermal power will bring down rates. Solar PV will not. Geothermal is the only indigenous alternative power source that pays royalties, does not request any subsidy or tax break on the back of utility customers and doesn't send dollars off the islands to the manufacturers of solar panels on the mainlands.
"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
Posts: 2,490
Threads: 222
Joined: Dec 2005
I figured it out a long time ago... Alternative Power will do nothing to the Price of Power here on the big island. Since I am sure geothermal will eventually be tied into the underground pipe to feed oahu... So the powers to be along with wind and every "renewable" MWATTHour they can drum will give them some hefty kick backs from uncle sam. You know that is why they built that billion dollar cable right? To plug the big island into Oahu. You know..."where POWER is needed MOST" and that most does NOT include the big island. So....
I highly doubt you'll see a dip in your power bill any time soon. I could be wrong of course and I hope I am. I'd love to see my rate go down even tho eventually I'll be calling up Helco one day with a disconnect order myself.
Mark, I almost went the same Route you did but quickly decided a temp pole "FOR NOW" was the way to go. Sadly I just don't have the funds right now to make solar a reality. I do but I'd rather not dig into my rainy day fund as of now. Also, you should be happy to know that anyone on "temp" rate has to pay 30 dollar a month connection charge while the rest of drones get to pay the 15 dollar connection fee before they start to bend you over and rape you with the taxes or the high kWh charges. Kinda an incentive to hurry up and go solar! haha
Posts: 968
Threads: 74
Joined: Aug 2007
I think the concept of there being a lot of oil imported to run our electrical generators may be wrong. Not sure, but, the way I have heard it is that crude oil comes into the islands to be refined into jet fuel on Oahu, which we all can understand the demand for that, and not really have alternatives to offer. And, that the fuel used to run our electrical generators is the waste product from making that jet fuel. If this is correct there is no crude oil being imported for our needs, and if we replace our use of petroleum based fuel then that waste will have to go somewhere.. and that in itself might become added costs we have to cover anyways.
Posts: 8,443
Threads: 1,031
Joined: May 2003
I think I read somewhere that the last refinery on Oahu is planning to close and all petroleum based fuels will be processed elsewhere and shipped in. Prices will go up.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
Posts: 14,083
Threads: 424
Joined: Aug 2012
Prices were going up anyway, Rob -- I assume you meant "prices will go up faster than before (and with a better excuse)".
Posts: 4,848
Threads: 83
Joined: Feb 2009
quote:
Originally posted by dakine
Not sure, but, the way I have heard it is that crude oil comes into the islands to be refined into jet fuel on Oahu, which we all can understand the demand for that, and not really have alternatives to offer. And, that the fuel used to run our electrical generators is the waste product from making that jet fuel.
The EPA is forcing Helco to start burning diesel fuel to lessen the amount of SO2 in the air to protect the pristine air in Hawaii Volcanoes National Park.
http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/sections...sions.html
|
