What does"unpermitted" mean for a home buyer?

[sputnut]

kimo.. when you say big headache, what do you mean? I hear getting a permit is somewhat of an ordeal there.

comin' your way soon!

[maud gonne]

Some questions vis a vis my own permitted but unfinaled house. I'd love to get finaled to reduce my Helco bill, but I don't want to open a can of worms with inspectors, so here are my questions:
1. The walls are open - never sheetrocked. We like it that way. If an inspector, say electrical, okayed the wiring (based on viewing it due to open walls) would it then have to be closed up, i.e. sheetrocked, to be finaled. Or can a final be issued with open/unsheetrocked walls?
2. Will an inspector coming out for a specific inspection note or "bust" you for other not-to-code structures or add-ons?
Thanks for any input.

[kimo wires]

The aforementioned headache would be getting the inspections through. Inspectors don't like looking at drywall when they are trying to inspect the construction and mechanical systems. Getting a permit isn't that hard. Especially when compared to the other islands. Its getting that "approved" slip in your hand that's the hard part.

One Thing I can always be sure of is that things will never go as expected.

[kimo wires]

Maud, on getting finaled without drywall your plans would have to note that its single wall construction and all the wiring would have to be contained either in wire molding trim or conduit. No exposed romex wire allowed below six feet.
Inspectors don't "bust" you. They either give you a slip that says "approved" or "not approved".
Also remember you are getting a "rough inspection" when they are looking at the wiring. You get your "final" inspection when the walls are done and all your switches and receptacles are done.
Helco will not change your rate until you have your last inspection done by the building inspector.

[Carey]

Sputnut, I do not know the listed house, but here are some cautions for the listing:
Are the drains in the unpermitted "outside" 1/2 bath & laundry tied to the main house drain?
What is the flooring on these unpermitted additions (if the pic. of the one bath is the unpermitted, I would want a much better indication, as that picture could be of a dirt floor...)
Most of the rooms have "stuff" by the windows...these could be an indication that the windows have been broken into & the "stuff" is blown-in (that could be a big can of worms, esp if water has blown in)
The listing agent has "Waiakea High School" as one of the schools...it is not, Pahoa High School is the school for that area. It may that other things are not as the listing appears, including that it only needs a bit of TLC...

After living here, I would never take any strength in a permit meaning anything as to the quality of the work (have seen enough permitted work here that does not even come close to code, much less simple Carpentry 101 skills) but also know that tie-ing in a bath addition to existing plumbing might not have been done...esp if the existing structure is on a slab....

[Kelena]

So there you go Sputnut---only a portion of that house is unpermitted, namely an additional toilet and a porch. And so here's the deal: 1) You need do nothing if you think these additions are safe and the County doesn't cite you (check out a recent thread on a home in Seaview that was mass of unpermitted improvments -- the County only cited after intense public pressure), 2) You could voluntarily attempt to get it permitted -- the cost will be bringing it up to code and the cost of permitting or 3) The County may engage in a spasm of enforcement and insist that you remove these things, in which case you are out the money it takes to do that.

The fact that an aspect of a home is unpermitted here is not uncommon and I wouldn't let that stop me if I liked the house and the price. I would let it slow me down enough to assess the potential cost of addressing the issue. And that might stop me. But if it is just a toilet that is unpermitted, it seems like a problem that could be remedied.

But still a problem. Better to have a home that is fully permitted. That problem may not be reflected in the price, though, as there are many things that affect the price of a home and that is just one of them. You can reflect it in your offer though.

My home did have an unpermitted feature. I removed it -- not because anyone told me to do so, but because I was convinced it was unsafe and a potential liability.

[sputnut]

this is what I find a lot on listings there. Many have portions not permitted, and I had no idea what that meant for me, the buyer. So, from what I have read, it could be a simple fix or permitting, or it could be a nightmare freddie krueger would be afraid to be a part of.
How does one tell the difference, because I would never count on a realtor to tell me how bad it is.

comin' your way soon!

[Carey]

That is the problem.

You could have the house inspected by an independent inspector, but they would not be able to know what is going on in the walls & such (much less wether the drain was connected)

You could inspect the house yourself (but still in IL is a long way to go for a looksie), and know that anything done in the walls & drains could be hard for you to pick up on...

But a good indicator is price & time on the market...a cheap house that is on the market for any time might have deficits that make it not sell fast.... 'course for new listings...unless you can see them & know what ...ummm... "interesting" construction CAN be done, you will have to trust someone else..

[maud gonne]

So, Kimo...During the course of an inspection no inspector looks at other stuff and says "that has to be changed" or "that's not up to code" - he doesn't go back to the office and write it up as a violation in the record? His job is just to inform the homeowner what needs to be done to get permitted if they wish to pursue? No "busting" or "spying"? Of course, I realize that by trying to get permitted I would be starting a process that probably has a deadline or consequences if not followed through, and I am not at all confident that we can follow through, money and time wise. Also, the original permit was pulled in 1972 (we reupped it in 2007) and we might(?) be responsible for all the building code updates since 1972. Clearly I'm out of my league here. If it weren't for that overwhelming Helco bill...
I might add, to the general discussion, that we were one of those buyers who bought the house as unpermitted because it was adequate and the price was right. Downside - haven't been able to get homeowners insurance, only liability insurance.

[kalakoa]

Inspection is "voluntary compliance", so you get a checklist of things that have to be fixed. This could involve tearing down an outbuilding that isn't written into the plan. Getting "busted" is a completely different process. In either case, the reality is subjective and highly variable -- maybe the inspector is having a really nice day, and they decide it's "good enough".

After the inspection is signed off, it doesn't matter if the work was "right", because having the paperwork is far more important.

There is theoretically a time limit, but extensions can be granted for cause.

The "required codes" usually go with the permit, so your project is "grandfathered" against later changes, as long as the permit remains "valid".