Paradise Trashed and Aloha Vanishing

[Kelena]

Well then, I think we have to ask this basic question:

Can we agree that throwing refuse wherever we want to is a bad thing?

[missydog1]

Glen, I think those of us whose background has taught us throwing trash is bad can say that, but for those who were never taught that, no, we cannot say that to them without imposing our views on others, so we can try to convince others of our views, but diplomatically and non-judgmentally?

We already do condemn littering in public and on other people's land in the form of laws made by those who are in power. As to a person's private property ... we need to be careful about expecting others to do as we do. Education when people are at an impressionable age, great. Attitude, superiority, and scorn, not so good.

Predictable response -- "if you don't like our ways, LEAVE, we never asked you to come here."

I agree with you, but I suspect we have similar cultural backgrounds.

My point is that many times we think our beliefs are absolute truths because we are surrounded by like-minded folks who like us condemn those who think otherwise as wrong. Often these truths are culturally relative and I believe we need to keep this in mind as we proceed to instigate change.

I think we really need to be careful about sweeping statements that assume everyone who settled these islands looked at them as "paradise" and all the preconceived notions that come with that idea. Look at history of the island settlement. It's simply not borne out by the facts. This was never a utopia. It was for most who came a resource and opportunity for a better life economically or politically (or so they hoped). For the missionaries, it was a duty and a mission, and a whole lot of ego and self-enrichment.

All I'm saying is let's be real about how Hawai`i came to be what is today. Environmentalism is a relatively new concept, even though the philosophy can reach back in time and draw on the spiritual ideals of pre-settlement Hawaiian culture. Which I applaud as an example and an inspiration, although society was hardly "perfect" then either. War, classism, feudalism, etc., not a utopia.

[Carey]

There are many area on the mainland that look much like rural Puna (Tennessee 'lawn cars"), and up till WW2 most people outside a downtown area had trash heaps on their property, and many in town had rubbish burn cans & Town dumps were not sanitary land fills. The problem is when cultural values/norms from one century clash with the new norms of today (Before WW2 most people did not drive in & eat food on the road, most packaging would easy burn or degrade & there were billions fewer people on earth. Times have changed, worldwide our consumption of materials has changed, and hopefully soon, so will the disposal methods.

It is interesting to note that keeping a clean yard & a neat rubbish pile was admired in some of the pre-contact Hawaiian lore.... maybe we should all strive to live that way...

[oink]

Oddly, my recolection of Maui and rural Oahu when I lived there in the early 70s was that there was much more trash dumped on roads and gulches than the BI has now. I was plesantly supprised at the reduced level of trash when I visited Hawaii after some 30 years. I assumed there was an improved public awareness. Less trash is always better and any trash is too much.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[D&J]

Mahalo Match for your concern and your message. My wife and I will be moving to a home in HPP in Feb. We will continue to be stewards of this paradise and not only keep up after ourselves but pitching in where ever and when ever. It's all our responsibility. Collectively we can all make a difference. I agree Carey....we all could learn something from the Hawaiian past.
Jeff & Denni

Tuneman

[Guest]

HISstory, ah yes. "In the old days",

A. they had no Walmart.

B. the islands had so little population the yelling at your kids wouldn't be heard by 10 of you neighbors unless you lived in a "work camp".I lived in the manager's house in the Papa aloa Estates, next to a gulch that was only full of banana trees and pigs.

C. There wasn't a highway around the island, people road the train. If you haven't been the the Lapahoehoe Train Museum you're missing out on a lot of Hawaii, island history.

D. RESOURCES. Do I have an extra differential that fits my truck sitting out back under a tarp? You bet. Does it look like junk? Definitely. When the one goes out in my truck will I be glad I saved it? Priceless.

30 years ago when I was wondering where all the rental cars went when they bought new ones each year, I realized these were the rusted out "island cars" lots of people drove around in until they were so worn out, they'd fall apart, literally.

"Our", (and I don't include myself with the word and the next one) ETHNOCENTRICITY, is mostly a result of the bay boomers, TV and the leave it to beaver bubble we we're raised on. But that was then, this is now. We cannot do what we did in the past. All the mega fires are teaching us that lesson harshly all over the Western states.
Same here, 30 years ago there weren't nearly the cars, population and desire to escape the mainland as now especially since the turn of the century and 911.

But it is a primarily a "white affluent flight". And most definitely it not a bunch of poor people moving in. [Save for those out priced from Oahu's housing market} who've moved in to subdivisions like Nanawalli and Ainaloa, because lot are smaller lots cheaper than HPP or HA, not to mention Hamakua Coast$$$ or the West side.

What was done in the past was done because there weren't trash dumps all over the place as we now have for free. (Let them always be that way please)! Anyone who's watched that tow truck at the 76 station in town disintegrate over the years know what living in the middle of the ocean does to steal. ISLAND, means limited resources. Yes the BIG Island has more than all the other combined, but it to is finite.

Having a yard full of stuff is for some is being resourceful, others it's OCD, and others? they're just pigs. If you have pigs living next to you in paradise it can't be pleasant.

Makes no difference if you came from East or West, North or South to this rock. And blogging for years won't do as much as calling the county offices responsible for policing, enforcing and and making sure follow up is conducted. How many people read this web site?

County numbers are all available, 411, white pages.com, Hawaii County website. Call them and complain, report and encourage, them to do what Hawaii sec. 20 (Refuse) instructs them to do. a 1000 calls might wake up someone. Elections are coming, who's running on the aina ticket this time? Sorry Harry, but the most damage I've seen happen to this County has been under your 2 terms. And you ran on a aina ticket, no?

When others came here in centuries past the world was different. What they did then has little to do with the world today. They didn't leave us with a giant land fill. That's happened in the last few decades. I have bottles, (brown apothecary and green poison ones) that I dug up in my backyard in San Francisco when I was going to SFSU, and living in Merced heights. Sandy soil where in the 1800's they just buried or burned their trash. I also found a woman's lace up boot, a gold tip from a fountain pen. One person's trash is another's treasure, give or take a century.

One last thing I have to say is the ripping of lots pin to pin all over the puna rain forest, which is all of puna. Will eventually cause change to the micro climate we now enjoy. Keep it up and get used to drought and trucking in water like Oceanview has to. In the mean time
call your county and state tax-paid employees, ask em wasup?

Oh and I loved Switzerland. But Amsterdam was mo betta. And you think we have freedoms, lol.

[Beachboy]

Opala is a big problem here in the islands. How many more years are we gonna be able to dump our opala in Kea'au Landfill? On Oahu they are already worried about what to do when the Kailua Landfill is all full. Can't keep making mountains of trash!
As far as people filling their property with different types of opala, that is their own business and there ain't to much we can do about it.

What is the law for burning trash on your property on the Big Island? We gotta do something, and fast. Like I said, most of the landfills in the islands are all full, or pretty damn close to being all filled up.

Hey, I just thought of a good idea![] We should ship all our opala to Micronesia! Kinda like going to the dump here. We put all our used paper products such as dirty diapers, Sanitary napkins, etc., to the island of Chuuk. Send all our abandoned cars to Yap, and all the rest of our trash to Truk! Why you ask do I single out Micronesia? If you are aware of your surroundings you'd agree. I hate to come off like a Bigot, but these people are a real burden here(Hawaiian Islands). I know this will offend some of you, but I really don't give a ....hoot! I've watched as these people have come in a just abused the Aina here. I'm tired of the indigenous people here getting blamed by tourist for awful that Micronesians do. Let me give you an example. My wife works at the Hilton in Waikaloa, and on some occasions I will drive her to work at the Waikaloa Hilton, then spend the day with my two boys at the beach. Normally my wife will ride the Hele-on Bus from Hilo to Waikaloa. She tells me that everyday while workers await the bus to return to Hilo they all lounge around on the one corner. Every friggin day these people leave their opala where they waited for the bus. This is a Micronesian's "MO", to leave opala anywhere, anytime. It's somewhat funny because that 's why they are there in Waikaloa in the first place, working at the resorts...they pick up the opala around the grounds of these hotels yet the are the biggest offenders of this crime....do I hear oxymoron?
How many times while workng in Waikiki have I heard a tourist say, "why do the Hawaiians leave their trash there on the beach, when there is trash cans right over there less than 20 yards away!!!" I was constantly educating tourists on this subject. "yes locals at times do leave trash on the beach, but they will not leave dirty diapers in the sand, or take a dump on the beach either!
So being raised in Hawaii, I was constantly defending Hawaiians when tourist would make these observations. So yeah, I have learned to really have a distain for these people, and that is why I single them out! If you think i'm wrong, or out there on this subject. Just ask some other Hawaiians how they feel about their Aina, and how they feel about Micornesians and their custom of leaving trash everywhere they go here in Hawaii! It frigg'in makes me sick to my stomach. It also makes me wanna break out my kid's 46 ounce Reggie Jackson Louisville Slugger a go and hit some kinky headed brown baseballs! There was a reason why my co-workers(beachboys) gave me the nickname"Hitman" down on Waikiki Beach where I worked as a surf instructor/outrigger capt.for close to 16 yrs!

Handle every situation like a dog,If you can't eat it or hump it,piss on it and walk away...

[gtill]

Beachboy, while i agree on the micros, they are not the only pacific islanders who have had assimilation problems. They have been steeped in pc welfare since the ww2 and and because of nuclear testing have been resettled enough times to have lost all their cultural knowledge in an exchange for monthly checks forever.More kids, bigger credit card and house. So now the fed is tired of making direct payments and sends them to hawaii to lighten their load. I'm betting the guy from micro who was busted for throwing the rocks, and nearly killed a kid in a car will get a wrist slap because he was drunk and an immigrant. Others get 10 tries because their daddy was mean to them. When a young girl can get hapai at 16, get signed for a credit card, get a house, medical,auto insurance etc., and have another kid and get a bigger house. This has been a scourge to the whole country, there is a free ride. This only encourages bad attitudes. Look at it on the brightside, at least those people were working, if they're litter pickers, mabe they think their giving someone job security. Incidentally, here on oahu ns from mokulea to kaena point, the town campers come. Very many, stuck in town all year, and suddently in the wild(to them). the 2 manini dumpsters serving the mile long beach area for 3 days. Meanwhile from haleiwa to sunset, trash cans are everywhere and litter @ rubbish picked up twice daily all weekend long. Also as my wife says try to find a local face from laniakea to sunset store, nada one! The slogan here is "keep the country country"! !0 years ago my father in law kept a string of horses and some cattle, staked out all around on vacant lots on pupukea heights, the one acre subdivision Zoned ag1. While saving the turtles (previously soup or steak), the surf and the land,no more chickens (noisy/bird flue), plowing (because of dust), backyard slaughter(for imu) imu(with 2 week written permission from a fireman who will answer complaints about it. Plus only until rocks hot, no all night fire.) no junkyards(one still car qualifies), and of course pigs(if safeway doesn't have it you don't need it.


I see the chicken ban coming to to "keep puna rural", what is the rule for burning when clearing? And how about the anti copter petition trying to ban all tour overflights over puna and the eruption , costing a bunch in revenue loss for the whole community. And we're supposed to demand this? Read the chopper petition carefully, traffic control with set boundries and altitude direction control, over the subdivisions to the park. The park can make it's own rules. This banning overflights completly including the park is a slap in the face to many workers! Sorry for the ramble, but you don't take away a man's millstone!

[missydog1]

quote:

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What is the law for burning trash on your property on the Big Island?

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It's illegal now, and good thing too, because burning plastics are toxic and any kind of smoke is bad for people with asthma or respiratory issues.

I wake up every couple weeks with my house full of friggin smoke because my neighbors burn, even though they shouldn't, and the wind carries it right over, and it draughts in my windows, and it sucks ... and I have an asthma attack. So please do not burn ...

imu's are still allowed.
Trash burns are illegal because of the potential for the fire to get out of control, or so I was told by the fire department.

[Guest]

If you burn your paper and cardboard to start your BBQ is fine. If your BBQ is a 6' rock wall circle it's a pit, with a screen on top it's a BBQ, Whole pig on a spit? Puna Style, F... Safeway.
Never plastic, treated wood or styrofoam, duh.