trash on Mauna Kea

[birdmove]

quote:

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Originally posted by TomK

Enjoyed your post, Kalakoa. Just one thing:

"Related: it's been said that ground-based telescopes are obsolete and we should be building telescopes in space."

Note that this hasn't been said by astronomers but by others who do not understand the field of observational astronomy. Space-based telescopes are great, but they can't do many things ground-based telescopes can do and are incredibly expensive.

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And letsnot foget the giant mistakemadein grinding the mirror for that space telescope. Theyfound out, S Irecall, zfter the space telescope was in orbit.some sharp person was zble tomake a corrective lens, which then had to be put in orbit, and installed byhumzn hands.

A very expensive mistake. Why were they not able to avoid that whole fiasco? It was said that the error wzs about the thickness of a human hair. But, hobbyists grind mirors for smaller Newtonian relectors all the time. I bet one's first try might often be bad, but practice improves the skill.

Jon in Keaau/HPP

[PaulW]

Ironic, protesting against something (Walmart) that has done more to make life better for the average person here than any politician or protecster™ ever has.
Maybe that's another reason for protesting the telescope, they want people to be kept poor and ignorant. A noble cause.

[kalakoa]

So cheap, their kids on the mountain can discard those items after only a few months use without giving it a second thought.

It is racist to suggest that only Hawaiians would do such things. What we have here is selective cultural assimilation: lifted 4x4 and cheap Chinese goods OK, but other Western-style progress is desecration.

Note that this hasn't been said by astronomers but by others who do not understand the field of observational astronomy.

Yes -- however, in this context, it will require the invention of new, more subtle types of irony.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

It is racist to suggest that only Hawaiians would do such things.

Certainly not my intention.
I had attempted to highlight that many aspects of Western civilization, culture, technology, and science are warmly embraced in a nondiscriminatory fashion by people of all races, color, national origin, sex, religion, and ages.

Sing it with me:
"We are the world..."

[kalakoa]

Certainly not my intention.

I realize that -- but the "kids on the mountain" were claiming to be Hawaiian. Perhaps they meant "in spirit" rather than by birth.

[MarkP]

The protesters have gone out of their way to isolate and distinguish themselves based on race. You and I know that racism is bad but the protesters are playing fast and loose on that account. It is not surprising that the lines get a little blurred sometimes.

[kalakoa]

The protesters have gone out of their way to isolate and distinguish themselves based on race.

Knowing full well that nobody can respond in kind because "race" is a protected class ... in other words, they're playing dirty pool.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by kalakoa

December 1994...

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I suppose that's as far back as news goes on the internet.

The history of Civil disobedience here in the islands is pretty rich. Well worth looking into if you're interested. Though I suppose there's something to be said for the comforts of ignorance. Especially if one is intent on their belief in the white man's superiority.

[kalakoa]

Especially if one is intent on their belief in the white man's superiority.

Assumes both whiteness and belief in racial superiority.

All races are human. Ideas and actions are what matter. The TMT protestors are both right and wrong, same with the lawmakers. TMT is closest to being a paragon of virtue: it's all about science and discovery, they don't want to subjugate anyone, the fact that they have to buy permits from shysters isn't their fault. Root cause of most of these problems is the whole concept of land "ownership".

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

The history of Civil disobedience here in the islands is pretty rich.

Without specific examples, we can only guess what you’re referring to. There are recent actions which were claimed by “protectors” to be “civil disobedience” but they clearly were not if you read Thoreau, Gandhi, and MLK. Concerning the incidents of 2019 on Mauna Kea I would, however, completely agree with your statement above if you meant it in a “oh! That’s rich! kind of way.