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Good morning all.
I think I'm being taken out of context. Obviously, of those of us who have the free time to fiddle around most all day with a web forum are a bit isolated from the "wolf at the door." The people living in the new "tent cities" in Los Angeles, Sacramento, Seattle because they've lost their homes would have a very different view about the future, indeed the present. These people obviously have NO community. How can a semi-professional person be so isolated that you can lose a house and have no friends or family or anyone to take you in, in such a way you end up squatting out by LAX? I would say the wolf is at the door as well for many of the families here in Hawaii, again obviously not represented by Punaweb--who are desperately trying to unload vehicles, motorcycles tools, and everything else all up and down 11, for anyone who hasn't noticed. Unemployment is still low here in Hawaii, but unusually low, and there is real economic suffering out there, no question about it, and sure, again, while many of US have cause to be optimistic, many many many other people don't.
Perhaps this is to the core of my point, a community spirit isn't worrying about YOUR well-being, it's about worrying about the well-being of others who are not so fortunate. And I can't imagine anybody can sensibly contest that there is a lot of poverty out there in a very weak economy, tones of debt, and it is clearly getting worse. Anybody unaware of the fact of the large and growing number of Hawaiian families who are in real economic trouble with no place to go is simply not paying much attention.
I don't think it takes a very sophisticated or repressive ideology to engender community spirit. It simply requires group prosperity over personal prosperity. Of course the devil is in the details--and shewed people realize that prosperity isn't near as much fun if you haven't have poor people around to rub their face in the fact that you've got it so good.
So perhaps these thoughts may temper the conversation. I don't want to come across as a bitter recluse. Far from it. My sailing organization was founded with the intent to build community and it really has, and has been a real source of nourishment for me and others for years. http://www.oarclub.org It doesn't take much, but it takes a lot of effort, but the reward is I have vibrant relationships with hundreds of talented people all over the world. That can be done here too, but you've got to shake out those that "get it."
Gail Tverberg gave the keynote address at the Hawaii energy forum in Hilo a few weeks ago. She is a major voice on Peak Oil.
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4192#more.
It’s about her energy impressions of Hawaii.
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quote:
Originally posted by JWFITZ
...I think I'm being taken out of context...
Honestly, Fitz, I don't think you're being taken out of context at all. Above, I quoted a whole string of excerpts from your original post, not a single excerpt, all of which add up to a very negative, pessimistic view of life. The title of the thread itself sets the context, "Hello Mr. Wolf..."
Perhaps it's in the presentation. You are right in saying that we face many serious problems, community involvement being one of them. The way you said it in your first post, the context of your first post, however, might lead one to think that you have focused primarily on the problems in life.
There are many, many good things happening in our communities, in addition to the homelessness, drug abuse and addiction, crime, etc. This website is the best thing I've ever seen in the way of community involvement in the age of the Internet. From Pam Lamont soliciting (and getting) volunteers to help with her construction project, to improvements in and around Pahoa, to the sharing of information about the upcoming elections and holding officeholders and candidates accountable, to aiding local small business owners at the Makuu Market, Punaweb is doing an outstanding job of facilitating community involvement.
I see good things and bad things, but I do not choose to believe that the bad things outweigh the good things, or that the bad things can't be made better by creative people with aloha in their hearts.
Aloha! ;-)
Aloha! ;-)
Posts: 1,273
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Let's be clear. Community spirit at its core is "focusing" on the problems people face, and attempting to ameliorate them.
Again, when I speak of community spirit, I’m perhaps not so much interested in MY future, or even OURS. I’m concerned of our community at large. I’m pretty certain among many here on Punaweb, obviously who have much of the day to fiddle around online, or take up personal causes in their free time--few are in the economic situation that faces most people here in Hawaii. Many of us still do have reasons to be “optimistic.“ There are, I suspect, few here who have recently lost menial jobs in construction or tourism, or who have lost family in Iraq, or who have recently been through a home foreclosure. There is simply no way one can deny that average working class people are beginning to suffer greatly. There are widespread areas in California where the foreclosure rate is now 1 in 8 homes, and this figure is being arrested because banks cannot afford to take any more repos on the books. Unemployment, even if you trust the unrealistically low figures published by the government are on the rise incontestably, and while they are still low, but on the rise in Hawaii. While losing jobs that will be hard to replace, the cost of living for working class families, here especially, is rising very rapidly--some figures may suggest as much as 15% this year. For those many if not most families in OUR COMMUNITY, although not represented on this forum, this is going to be very very difficult to weather. There is no question that for much of our country, and CERTAINLY for Hawaii, the wolf is very much at the door for many many families.
It is indeed shocking to me, and really bespeaks of the utter lack of community spirit I worry about, to see those tent cities that are springing up in Los Angeles, Sacramento, Seattle, and elsewhere, of families, recently employed, who have now lost jobs are now sleeping in cars or tents. . .how is it that a semi-professional family can be so alienated and dispossessed that there is NO ONE that will take them in, and they must join the 1500 or more people now living near LAX? It is really unbelievable, and completely condemning of our society at large. But I understand--because what passes for community spirit, much of the time, is taking on those burdens, selectively, that one wishes with the people one enjoys when time permits. This is not my definition of community spirit. Again, community spirit in any meaningful sense I can understand is caring for those one may not enjoy at times it’s not convenient.
As for myself, I’d rather not be to psychoanalyzed--but I suppose it’s inevitable. I write here with the deliberate attempt to build a community of like-minded, progressive people. This has been the explicit purpose of these projects from the start. This does not mean, however, that I indulge in the luxury of remaining unaware and uninformed of the rather dire circumstances that face many of the people around me, those that I interact with every day. As any empathic human being should feel; I feel burdened by this, greatly. Fortunately, I have the skills to live my life very minimally and without encumbrance, and this grants me the relative affluence to work for a better world in a meaningful and non-inclusive manner, as well as to seek out friends that understand and attempt to do the same.
And that is what I am trying to through this post.
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Can i inflect a quick story.... right here>>>>> After the iniki blew into Kauai in 1991 I was employed by several well-to-do gentlmen to go to Kauai to assess and secure their investments (real estate). After a plane ride and hellicopter ride i arrived to find their homes/condos to be in fair condition. It took only several days to get the properties secured and to some extent cleaned up. I decided to stay and oversee some repairs. While I was there i worked on many other homes for locals and such.. (for free) The Aloha was sooo incredible, i just can't describe it. Some one in an earlier post (this thread) pointed out the many problems that were facing Hawaii.
But, what I saw was a commonality between rich, poor, old young, Houlie, moke, and every body else. I think the fact that the one thing all of us had in common was that we're all miles from nowhere. I believe that this geographical issue was a key part in the bonding. It was so evidient for those days after the storm. I spoke with a National Gaurdsman who had just come from the same type situation in Homestead Fla. where he had to use his rifle daily to protect the properties from looting etc.. He told me that three days after they had arrived on Kauai they turned in their weapons. Only a few of them still carried side arms by the end of the first week.. These guys were amazed at the Aloha and the community spirit compared to Fla. I think that that common ground is something that is hard to put a price on.
BTW... it was somwhere in those 6 weeks that I decided to, when I had children, move back to Hawaii to raise them.
Gtill... I will address your post to me later this evening. Partially I agree with you but there are some things I would like to speak to. Thanks, dave
Blessings,
dave
Dear IRS. I would like to cancel my subscription. Please remove my name from your mailing list.
Blessings,
dave
"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young
Posts: 325
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quote:
Originally posted by JWFITZ
...Community spirit at its core is "focusing" on the problems people face, and attempting to ameliorate them...
No doubt. And I congratulate you, Fitz, for putting your finger on one of the true underlying problems, lack of community and alienation from our neighbors, which leads to so many other difficulties like homelessness, addiction, etc. Extended family (ohana) and the support which comes from a true ohana, is the start and the foundation of community. If I can't rely on my mom and dad and my grandmother and my uncle to help me out when I'm in trouble, how can I possibly expect my neighbor to help me? Or the guy three blocks away?
Aloha! ;-)
Aloha! ;-)
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Joined: Jun 2006
Dave, "if I can afford it" is purely up to you, how much can you scrimp and save for the future. And since when did that ever change?
Well it actually changed in the last twenty years. Americans are working longer hours for less pay and there is no loyalty between employee and employer. Americans are in the most debt that they have ever been in and it takes both members of the family to make ends meet. Yes, I think it has changed. This is not your grandparents economy.. Not to mention the fact that people are working much longer in life than years before.
Was there ever a place large or small where you can go broke and expect much of anything without years of buss ass work? Mabe goldrush days, but not since!
I'm not talking about going broke. I'm talking about people being in debt up to their a$$.. like never before. You seem to be saying that it's always been that way. I just don't agree.
Those small towns remember, used to be so peaceful because they controlled their populations, (no blacks,jews,mexicans etc). That part we have radically changed since the 60s, and it is in fact a major achivement! Today anyone can go anywhere in the country without problem!
Cmon man.. we're not talking about only small towns in the deep south. I'm talking about two towns that are dieing right now because there's no work there LOL that doesn't mean there arn't minorities there. The good paying jobs (for both bread winners) are in the large cities. You're playing the race card [  ]
The Menonite ideal (barn raisings etc) is great, but it also requires following the complete faith! Would we be ready for that? If you try to give more than you receive, you'll be taken for a mark. But demanding work for accomodation should work or you!
I've seen people come together in small and large cities. Just check out the news cast and watch the people dealing with the flooding Missippi river(sp). And they appear to be of many different races as well.. [:p]
Things definetly are no so bad, it is corruption (developers breaking these subdivisions up like they did without consideration of infrastructure) that keep them at the price they are, go anyplace outside Puna and Oceanview and try to buy a carport for what here you get an acre! Worse yet on any other island!
I kinda agree with you here but remember developers only do break ups because people buy the lots and homes. I wouldn't call it corruption. I do agree with you about the pricing outside of Puna..
Count your blessings, it aint all bad!
I do count my blessings... look below my name at the end here. I even wish blessings on everybody else..
Blessings,
dave
Dear IRS. I would like to cancel my subscription. Please remove my name from your mailing list.
Blessings,
dave
"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young
Ok... all you little piggies running from the Big Bad wolf...
Can you all please calm down and read this post from someone who really is "in" the know of things.
...I gave talks to two different groups in Hilo--one was an energy forum consisting of about 150 business people and politicians discussing Big Island energy issues; the other was a group of Hawaiian people interested in sustainability...
-------
It is the way... the way it is.
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Oink!
Thanks for sharing the excellent "Hawaii: Peak Oil Canary in a Coal Mine" link, Damon. That really is a well-written and informative article. The comments following it are quite useful perspective as well.
To return the favor, here is another perspective -this one written in completely different style. Mark Morford is irreverent yet makes some good points and has hotlinks to nifty sites embedded in this article titled "We are doomed! Sort of! Earth in crisis, food and water increasingly scarce, people freaking out. Should you join them?"
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/06/25/notes062508.DTL&nl=fix
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Astonishing skill! This archer is a real-life Legolas and then some!
http://geekologie.com/2013/11/real-life-...rs-anc.php
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Posts: 485
Threads: 49
Joined: Dec 2006
[From the online newsletter, Grist]
For Your Energy Information
Global energy demand will grow 50 percent by 2030, says EIA
The world isn't going to kick its energy-sucking habits anytime soon, the U.S. Energy Information Administration predicted Wednesday. By 2030, global energy demand will grow 50 percent, says the EIA report, mostly in China and other developing countries. Some 124 new nuclear plants will be built worldwide by 2030, and natural gas will be in demand to "replace oil wherever possible." Renewables will grow about 2 percent each year -- but so will coal, which is already well ahead in the energy-production game (and in the earth-effing category). Oil prices, which closed at $135 a barrel on Wednesday, could be as low as $113 or as high as $186 a barrel in 2030. The EIA estimates assume no mandatory international agreement to cap carbon dioxide emissions; if such a pact is made, fossil-fuel use "could be altered substantially." With no CO2 deal, the agency predicts, the world will emit 51 percent more CO2 in 2030 than it did in 2005.
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Astonishing skill! This archer is a real-life Legolas and then some!
http://geekologie.com/2013/11/real-life-...rs-anc.php
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