S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th

[peregrine]

Perhaps Mr.Way, you would care to disclose your particular relationship with SPACE, beyond being a neighbor?

[csgray]

Let me get this straight: someone who makes extreme and sensationalist accusations of all kinds about a person who probably doesn't even read Puna Web while hiding behind a made up screen name demands that another poster identify himself? Maybe he is as afraid of retaliation from you as you claim to be afraid of the SPACE people. After all you could start publicly accusing him of being a criminal low life next.

This has certainly degenerated into some really nasty he said/she said unprovable accusations and name calling. Yuck.

Carol

[JWFITZ]

I agree, if half the assertions made were at all valid, this would be a case for the FBI-- rather than a zoning issue.

http://sensiblesimplicity.lefora.com/

[DanielP]

I have never had the opportunity to attend any SPACE events and am not in the neighborhood. Sounds like some personality issues are fueling disagreement and diverting the real issue. No matter how valuable the contributions or how agreedious the nuisance, If SPACE is going to be self-sustaining, as was mentioned as a goal, then it MUST comply with the terms of it's use permit.

Sounds to me like SPACE has shot itself in the foot by growing beyond it's original concepts and agreements and if it were to pare back it's activities to be back in compliance with the use permit then the problem is solved.

If SPACE wants to go beyond the agreements that they entered into when they got the use permit, then they need to do a reassesment. A new location may be needed.

You can't just take an neighborhood art gallery and expect it to evolve into Barnum and Bailey. Get real.

Dan

[JWFITZ]

Maybe the law or the zoning needs to evolve to keep up with the obvious needs or desires of the community it supposedly serves.

http://sensiblesimplicity.lefora.com/

[peregrine]

I did not ask for someone to identify themselves, they have done that in their user name. I have asked that they disclose the specifics of their relationship to the subject of discussion, as I believe their statement is intended to create a certain impression of representing "the neighbors" and the community at large, while obscuring the fact that they are in fact part of the SPACE/Belly Acres/Village Green "in crowd". Mr.Way not subject to the ill treatment that I seen witnessed others fall victim to.

[peregrine]

Please excuse the typo on the last line of my previous post. Thank you.

[missydog1]

What I observe from this topic is that people who feel benefitted by GE and SPACE are in strong defense and are outraged by what peregrine says. Peregrine says there is a dark side. Yes, what he alleges is probably defamatory if not true. (Truth is a complete defense against defamation.) So I hope he only speaks what he could prove to be true. If it is true, it is not character assassination but character revelation, and if he believes it to be true, I think he has a right to say it, even using a screen name.

My feeling about screen names is that unless the forum has a rule that you have to post under your own name, that it is impolite to denigrate people for using nicks. Nicks are the way of the internet forum, of most forums, and folks shouldn't attacked for using them as long as they don't play games with ghostnics and dual identities. One person, one nick, perfectly honorable.

I also notice that DanielP and I are reading this from a neutral perspective and aren't outraged the same way people are who have a personal connection to SPACE.

Terri.way said "The place and the people have literally turned my life around." This makes it clear there is some closer connection than living across the street, which means terri.way has a partiality and is not a neighbor who is making an impartial comment on whether the impact is substantial. I think it's reasonable for peregrine to ask him to state the involvement exists. It's not necessary that he give his name or identify himself or herself. Only to be frank about where he's coming from when he says the activities aren't bothersome.

While I don't take peregrine's assertions as fact, because there is no proof offered up in the forum, I don't think they sound far-fetched. I jumped into the world of communal living, communes, benign leaders of the community, and visions of artistic collectives over 40 years ago. And I saw a lot. A lot of big egos playing philanthropist and becoming powerful and playing certain roles. So I know that type of personality exists, and can be very charismatic. While I do not know the person in question, I have known people just like what peregrine describes, so I'm not going to sit here and react with "that's just crazy!" Those kind of personalities and are why I ran from communes and collectives and never looked back.

As for the insidious way that people can fall out of favor that peregrine describes - I was in that kind of organization once and watched it happen to friends and to me. It was a bizarre experience. Happened in an incorporated but individually owned company that had a big image to maintain as very sweet, very polite, very genteel - and had the most vicious internal behavior I've ever seen. Sometimes the nicer they look the darker the core.

As I said, I don't BELIEVE without facts, but I don't like seeing the newcomer attacked for being way off the wall, when I find the dynamic he describes perfectly recognizable from my own experience with collectives and organizations controlled primarily by one individual. It's a lot more common for human endeavor to be full of ego than to be selfless. It just is. So when you find yourself idealizing something the way SPACE is being idolized here, you might wonder if it's all for real or whether there's a very very good PR machine influencing your opinion. If you can't bear to see it questioned, maybe that's a red flag? It is to me when I see this kind of response.

[Rob Tucker]

Kathy, There will always be more than one side to a story but there is still a difference in a neighborhood special use permit issue with public hearings ahead and anonymous character assassination. What ever might or might not sound credible to outsiders will be of little affect. What is or is not credible to the Planning Commission will matter.

The SPACE issue will not be solved here.

[csgray]

For the record I am not a member of the "in crowd" at SPACE and don't have any personal or professional association with it, and don't in any way "idealize" anyone involved in the organization. I am a former resident of Seaview who found SPACE to be a perfectly reasonable neighbor.

Just because Kathy has had past involvement with charlatans doesn't mean these people are. And just because people are uncomfortable with anonymous character assassination doesn't mean they have drunk the kool-aid. Peregrine made extreme statements about someone while providing no evidence, which makes me think they are trying to destroy the credibility of people testifying in future public input sessions.

This is a zoning issue, anonymous personal attacks really shouldn't enter into it.



Carol