We Support TMT - Please sign the petition

[snorkle]

Isn't it amazing how some people refuse to acknowledge how cultures can hold on to traditional values while utilizing new technology.

It's like believing that Christians must wear robes and sandals and refuse to drive cars or watch FOX news.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

It's like believing that Christians must wear robes and sandals and refuse to drive cars

But snorkle, it's more work to stereotype people if every member of a group is different. Some of us have jobs you know.

[Jay Bondesen]

6885 signatures as of this morning.

Jay

[snorkle]

Answer the question; Why are those savages holding cell phones? Could they be stolen?

[Wao nahele kane]

Leilanidude senses the several ironies, conundrums and paradoxes taking place and trying to spit them out. Attempting to sort all these out in ones mind is a slow Brain screw.
A couple but not limited to:
We stand against the culture that has helped us secure our ability to stand in favor of our former ancestors culture which did not allow us to stand at all. (Does this mean they are asking Western culture to strike them down or does it simply mean they prefer their ancestors culture which would have struck them down instead? If this is about a spiritual matter, wouldn't they already have that guaranteed to them now as do the Amish, Mennonites and so on?.)
Ahhh and then the Dramatic Irony in knowing what the protests are actually achieving and to watch these protestors so conduct themselves as to achieve the opposite of what they desire. But then again what they desire is paradoxical in itself as described in the first notation.

To not realize ones sovereignty when freely exercising it is another.

I'm no longer considering this a Hawaiian issue. This is an issue of some rather confused people and Hawaiians hold no exclusivity to having confused people as all peoples have confused people amongst them.

[Frank]

ok...now i'm really confused, but...

[PunaMauka2]

food for thought in regard to exaggerated cultural identity.

Ingroup favoritism
Main article: In-group favoritism

In-group favoritism (also known as "ingroup bias", despite Turner's objections to the term[13]) is an effect where people give preferential treatment to others when they are perceived to be in the same ingroup. Social identity attributes the cause of ingroup favoritism to a psychological need for positive distinctiveness and describes the situations where ingroup favoritism is likely to occur (as a function of perceived group status, legitimacy, stability, and permeability).[3][25] It has been shown via the minimal group studies that ingroup favoritism may occur for both arbitrary ingroups (e.g. a coin toss may split participants into a 'heads' group and a 'tails' group) as well as non-arbitrary ingroups (e.g. ingroups based on cultures, genders, sexual orientation, and first languages).[26][27]

Continued study into the relationship between social categorization and ingroup favoritism has explored the relative prevalences of the ingroup favoritism vs. outgroup discrimination,[28] explored different manifestations of ingroup favoritism,[25][29] and has explored the relationship between ingroup favoritism and other psychological constraints (e.g., existential threat).[30]

-------

Collective narcissism (or group narcissism) is a type of narcissism where an individual has an inflated self-love of his or her own ingroup, where an "ingroup" is a group in which an individual is personally involved.[1] While the classic definition of narcissism focuses on the individual, collective narcissism asserts that one can have a similar excessively high opinion of a group, and that a group can function as a narcissistic entity.[1] Collective narcissism is related to ethnocentrism; however, ethnocentrism primarily focuses on self-centeredness at an ethnic or cultural level, while collective narcissism is extended to any type of ingroup, beyond just cultures and ethnicities.[1][2] Some theorists believe group-level narcissism to be an extension of individual narcissism, though others believe the two to be independent of each other.

Characteristics

Collective narcissism is characterized by the members of a group holding an inflated view of their ingroup.[1] It is important to note that collective narcissism can be exhibited by an individual on behalf of a group or by a group as a whole.[1] Fundamentally, however, collective narcissism always has some tie to the individuals who make up a narcissistic group.[1] Collectively narcissistic groups require external validation, just as individual narcissists do.[9] Organizations and groups who exhibit this behavior typically try to protect their identities through rewarding group-building behavior (this is positive reinforcement).[9]

________________________________________________


added by edit: a curious variation - on the part of those who define themselves as part of the outgroup (i.e. "non-Hawaiian") exhibiting a markedly biased favoritism towards the perceived ingroup (in this case, "Hawaiians").

[Clayjacks]

Okay, that was fun.
All Wikipedia entries aside, I also support the construction of a device that peers into the depths of our local cluster.
I think that if God (or gods) exist, they would approve wholeheartedly. That is, if they are benign gods...
Build it, and learn more.

[Wao nahele kane]

Misunderstood your statement Punamauka2 missed the "favoritism" aspect sorry.
Yeah, that is curios. Sort of bizarre in fact.

[opihikao]

FYI: LA Times Article (*Snipped - more at link)

Astronomers looking for sites for their giant telescopes must account for numerous conditions -- accessibility, distance from cities (sources of light pollution), minimal atmospheric turbulence -- and increasingly, cultural concerns.

The last of these is what's roiling plans for one of the world's largest telescopes, the $1.4-billion Thirty Meter Telescope near the summit of Mauna Kea on the island of Hawaii. Construction of the telescope, which in some ways is expected to be superior to the Hubble Space Telescope, was halted in April, soon after it began, in the face of protests from local cultural and heritage groups. The stoppage was initially scheduled to last one week; it has now lasted a month, and a date for the restart hasn't been set. The completion date for the telescope, a joint project of Caltech, the University of California and a consortium of foreign academic institutions, is 2023.

What's new in the TMT story is the willingness of the scientist/builders to hear and address local concerns. In connection with the Thirty Meter Telescope, "conversations are happening," says Michael Bolte, an astronomy professor at UC Santa Cruz and member of the TMT's board of governors. "We know if we press too hard, that's not the right path."

Few Big Science projects are as big as astronomical telescopes, and few have more potential to conflict with local concerns. Mountaintops are prime locations for the instruments, and "mountaintops tend to be significant in somebody's culture," Bolte observes.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/...tml#page=1


It is my understanding that on Saturday (5/9/15) meetings were held at OHA, and also with TMT and State officials with the protestors/protectors. Allegedly, more meetings today with all parties.

Let us hope this is progress.

Mahalo HOTPE for the link to Mr. Kalua's statement. He is a wonderful, Akamai man, who is the salt of the earth.

JMO.