Michael Vick has made my life more difficult...

[Rob Tucker]

Beachboy, in all kindness your argument that it is the people not the breed is correct and it is also the reason
you are fundamentally wrong. The same people that you hold responsible for the ill treatment and training of this breed are the very same people that developed the breed in the first place. The purpose of the long term breeding program was to have an animal that could, as easily as possible, be turned into a very dangerous animal. They bet on it.

Of course it is not inherently the dog's fault. But the dog is what it was bred to become... 35 -45 lbs of muscle and determination that can take down a 1,500 lb animal - a bull. I understand that they have sweet eyes and will lick you with affection and wag their tails when they are happy. It's simply what they are proven capable of when they are unhappy that is in oppostion to your thinking.

You have to understand how they got to be. If you were running a breeding program, over years, to develop a dog that would be a devoted companion and playmate for your children you would not come up with a Pit Bull. A Boxer possibly, but not a Pit Bull.

It may well be that the various sides of this debate may never concur. But if I am wrong I am simply wrong. If you are wrong you may be extremely unfortunate. That is the simple risk you assume.

[Kapohocat]

Ok so since you wont get a cat instead.... I will chime in my experience... my brother had 3 dogs and 3 cats on a good size piece of land. He also had 3 small children under 7 at the time. The dogs were very good with the children and the cats. One was a pit bull which had been raised very gently and lovingly. When the pit bull was 2 years old, he got out and killed the neighbors bunny. My brother thought at first it was a fluke - that the dog "played" too hard with the bunny because the kids always played with the dogs and rode them and pulled ears etc... then the pit bull killed one of the cats who was the same age as the pit bull so they had grown up together. at that point, it was no a "fluke". He took the pit bull to a friends ranch where there were no cats or children, only coyotes. The pit bull was very happy there, but it didnt have access to small children or many humans for that matter, only horses and other bigger but gentle dogs. He lived a long life. (Dont know the stats on the coyotes fatalities!)

[Beachboy]

people tend to only see one part of this breed of dog. The part the media like to portray..."killer dog"


there is another side to this breed too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdY9Z5ub9...mp;search=

[punagirl]

I am an insurance adjuster. Home owners claims are not my specialty but over the years I have done a few. I would guess I handled at least 100 dog bites. None were pit bulls. I am sure there are lots of claims with pit bulls, it's just that they never came across my desk. What I have learned is the ANY dog can turn on it's owner and ANY dog, no matter how loved & domesticated can snap and attack someone. You see it happen to children a lot because their giddy excitement and rapid movements bring out some primal inate qualities in dogs.

I live a gentrifying neighborhood (I hate using that term, it has such racist connatations, just can't think of a polite way to describe it). We have & had lots of poor uneducated people that tied their dogs up on ropes hanging off the porch. The dog of choice is the pit bull. Now I doubt these people are getting pedigreed petsfrom a loving breeder. They are getting dogs from a neighbor whose chained up German Shepard did it with a pit that broke free from his rope. These pits & mixed pits do make me antsy when I walk my dogs past their yard. You know why? Not because of their breed, becasue they are frightened abused dogs living on a short chain (you should see the flimsy things that pass as chains to these owners, garden hoses etc!) left in the elements (even during our rare ice & snow storms) and likely never got to the vet. They are treated pooly so they act the only way they know how to act. They bare their teeth and growl withthe aggression of an attacking bear. It's all they know. Those pits scare me. I do know people with pit bulls that love & care for them like I do my minature dachshunds. Those pits are pretty sweet.

Again, any dog can attack. One of my minature dachshunds has effectively scared off most of the crackheads in my neighborhood. One of them came inside my fence asking for money for the bus. My little lean 10 lbs red minature dachshund Pearl attacked his leg. When this guy comes down our street now he walks way to the opposite side of the road. Word got around the my dogs are mean.

** By the way Beachboy, my Pearl once got into a fence with some chained up Pits and kicked one's butt. It was a crackhead house down the street and Pearl had ran out our gate that was open while we were unloading groceries. She got in their fence (which was locked with chains) and jumped on one of the pits. (OK he was chained up in the fence). They were really going at it. It took my husband a couple of minutes to get over this crazy fence and "rescue" Pearl. I will say that Pearl didn't have any blood but the PIt had a small scratch. Just sayng, any dog can go beserk and attack.

Atlanta/Pahoa

[Beachboy]

quote:

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Just saying, any dog can go beserk and attack.

Atlanta/Pahoa

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Exactly!!! Case in point. This past week a dog showed up at my house. It appears to be a mixed Pit Bull/ Whippet. She has that typical "bully" face but it's a bit narrow. I won't totally describe her because hopefully I can find owners. But she is considerably smaller than my 'Lucy', who hits the scale between 38 & 45 pounds. But it has come to my attention that Lucy's chin is semi raw from 'Tinker Bell' gnawing on her! For 'Lucy's' part she bites down on 'TinkerBell's' ears. Upon close inspection yesterday I noticed Lucy's chin raw, but 'Tinker da Stinker', ears were totally intact without even a scratch!?!@? Lucy drops Tinker's ears as soon as she yelps! Same goes with us, when Lucy plays, she gently grabs us in her mouth, oh she does break my skin. But I have that "Old man syndrome", were the smallest of bruises will turn black & blue and bleed!! But neither of my kids 8yrs old, or 20 months have any marks from Lucy whatsoever!

Do I think my dog could go off? Look, I'm not stupid,of course she could! We are talking about a dog here! It's not a Lion or Tiger that I'm trying to turn into a loving pet! I find it rather sad that these dogs biggest crime is trying to please their masters(forced to fight).
My dog comes from a loving environment, and I'm hoping it has an effect on her and how she interacts with my kids.

[oink]

Yes, any dog can bite or snap, often resulting in a wound requiring treatment. The Pit is probably not the worst breed for this. From my experience I would have to say the Chow ranks up there at the top for unprovoked bites. That said, I think the Pit is a very dangerous breed. They were bred for and continue to be bred for fighting and pig hunting. It is their one track mind that makes them good at that stuff. Any pig hunter can attest to the difficulty that they can have in getting the dog to release. That's why they are so dangerous. Once they go into that attack mode, they don't stop until finished, which is disastrous if the victim is an unintended human. If the owner isn't right their to force their legs apart to make them release you can have a disaster. They often won't respond to the owners verbal commands to release. I have never seen another breed that gets so single minded in attack. Kept securely penned except when used for hunting, they have their place. As a family pet kept around kids, I think you're engaging in high stakes gambling with the stakes being your kids lives. I have never owned a Pit but have had numerous friends that were Pit owners. They were all pig hunters.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Beachboy]

quote:

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Yes, any dog can bite or snap, often resulting in a wound requiring treatment. The Pit is probably not the worst breed for this. From my experience I would have to say the Chow ranks up there at the top for unprovoked bites.

I have never owned a Pit but have had numerous friends that were Pit owners. They were all pig hunters.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

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First and foremost my Pit Bull is for "Predators", that may come snooping around my property. My Pit Bull, 'Lucy' will make any 250 pd intruder think twice before ripping off my house. That's something a fifteen pd Poodle is incapable of doing, or any other lapdog for that matter!

My dog was not raised for hunting pigs! That's the one major reason she is not aggressive I guess. I have never put her on a "short leash",and never will. Nor has Lucy even been in a cage with a pig! A lot of Pig Hunter has "Dog stadiums" in which they throw a pig in it, followed by several Pit Bulls who naw on the pig for training.. This all helps create a mean tempered dog.
In my house the dogs are loved. Plenty of love in fact. Hell, my Lucy thinks she's a 40 pound Lapdog!! With time each day given to them for their well-being..

[seasidebob]

Beachboy, I think you are right in your assessment that pit bulls alone are picked on. IMHO, I wouldn't choose to own a pit bull, but neither would i own a doberman or a cocker spaniel or a dachshund! The aforementioned dogs I have seen to be biters. Dogs in general use their teeth to defend if they have to - I got bit by a dachshund one time working in a house. She thought she was defending the house because the owner was gone. We had to grab that rat and put her in the dog run outside. Thank god she was fat and you could hold her and she couldnt reach around and bite us again. The difference is the pit bull by weight alone we would not have been able to pick up like that.

[punagirl]

Alright seaside, you are on my list for being mean to dachshunds!! They really are ferocious animals. The original breeding goes was to hunt badgers & foxes in Europe. Present day breeding is just for pet. Any of my miniature doxies can tear a hand off if provoked. They have attacked quite a few possums & rats. It is really interesting to see the traits that went into the breed that are passed down through their genes. Any time my dogs have killed a yard animal they stand beside it with their chest out. This is the pose they were taught to do 200 yrs ago. My dogs haven't been trained to do anything (not that we haven't tried, the breed is known for stubborness) but they some how figured out to sit by their prey. David M has met my dogs and he can attest to how adorable they are but also to how spoiled they are (I cook for them). But at the end of the day they still have this hunter streak that is just part of their DNA.

Atlanta/Pahoa

[JerryCarr]

When I lived in New Orleans in the early 80's, I inherited three Saint Bernards from a friend moving overseas. These dogs had been bred in South Louisiana for generations, and neither they nor their immediate ancestors had ever seen snow. When I moved to Atlanta in 1986, we had really nice snow storm the very first winter. Just as a joke, some friends buried me in a snow drift while the dogs were in the basement, completely out of sight of what was going on. Upon releasing the dogs, they immediately tracked to where I was buried, rooted me out of the drift, and began licking my face. This is exactly what the "Know Your Saint Bernard" owners manual said they would do! I have to believe that under the right circumstances, dogs will do what they were bred to do. I do believe, however, that while the potential is there, it will not necessarily be realized. Still, one takes a chance that ANY dog will bite under some perhaps unforeseeable conditions.

Special Note to Punagirl: You and I seem to be on an incompatible cycle when it comes to going back and forth between here and the mainland. I was in Texas during your last visit here, and I will be again during your next! And I do love Punaweb Parties and sharing notes with Atlanta/Powder Springs folks.

Cheers,
Jerry