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Just because the US government built some space age facility to burn deadly chemicals safely does not mean by any stretch that the same technology will be in play in podunk Hilo. The for profit company that gets kenois contract will cut as many corners as possible in order to maximize their profit. If you burn plastic you get dioxin. Dioxin is an endocrin disrupter, it causes birth defects among other serious health issues. I worked on incinerators in Sacramento, representing the health interests of the State and they were still dangerous last time I checked(which wasnt the 1970's btw).
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Oahu has an electric rate 25% less than Hawaii island, due in significant part to having two huge waste-to-energy plants.
So far, not a single viable option from the anti-science ninnies. Just fight it tooth-and-nail, make the lawyers richer, and end up having to truck the rubbish to the Kona landfill.
And you anti-science people actually wonder why nothing gets done?
"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
....So far, not a single viable option from the anti-science ninnies. Just fight it tooth-and-nail, make the lawyers richer, and end up having to truck the rubbish to the Kona landfill.
And you anti-science people actually wonder why nothing gets done?
It is rather ironic that most of the anti-waste-to-energy crowd runs around picking up garbage from illegal dumping, which serves to fill the landfill up faster, all the while refusing to entertain any possible solution to the landfill being filled up.
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Making an assertion about the basis of electricity cost on Oahu is easy.
Where is the proof? Without it, you're just blowing smoke.
As for alternatives, that is already available: the County has a zero waste plan done in 2009.
The proposal is retrograde.
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quote:
Originally posted by james weatherford
Making an assertion about the basis of electricity cost on Oahu is easy.
Where is the proof? Without it, you're just blowing smoke.
As for alternatives, that is already available: the County has a zero waste plan done in 2009.
The proposal is retrograde.
Why do they call you the Professor when you can't even look up simple data? Right, the thought of going to HECO makes you go into a rage. From the HECO website (which actually has TONS of Hawaii electricity facts, not beliefs and emotions):
http://www.heco.com/heco/Residential/Ele...ht-Company
Oahu residential right now is 35 cents per kilowatt-hour and Hawaii island is 42.5 cents per kilowatt-hour. That is about 18% less. That isn't 25% but then look at the rest of the chart. Oahu gets massively lower rates for the whole spectrum of business and industrial use. Oahu has a lot LESS solar, wind and no geothermal so far.
Back to incinerators. OK, all incinerators = BAD. Flame = BAD. Smoke = BAD. Toxins = BAD.
The oil burning electric generation plants are INCINERATORS!!! In fact, they are HUGELY TOXIC INCINERATORS. The EPA documents THOUSANDS OF TONS OF TOXIC EMISSIONS FROM THE OIL BURNING ELECTRIC PLANTS THAT ARE INCINERATORS.
And not a peep about them, ever, from the hive-brain Punatic anti-science ninnies.
"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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Oahu has a lot LESS solar, wind and no geothermal so far.
Oahu would like to install these on neighbor islands so as not to destroy the pristine beauty of resorts, golf courses, and other important cultural artifacts.
EPA documents THOUSANDS OF TONS OF TOXIC EMISSIONS FROM THE OIL BURNING ELECTRIC PLANTS
EPA also rubber-stamps whatever emissions limits are handed them by the energy industry; while those regulations are tightening, the new limits are still too high, and most existing plants end up grandfathered anyway.
In any case, Hawaii's emissions are nothing compared to the coal-fired plants, especially the ones in China.
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quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
Why do they call you the Professor when you can't even look up simple data? Right, the thought of going to HECO makes you go into a rage. From the HECO website (which actually has TONS of Hawaii electricity facts, not beliefs and emotions):
http://www.heco.com/heco/Residential/Ele...ht-Company
Sure, Oahu has lower rates. That is not in question.
It is the WHY the rates are lower that is in question.
Since the unproven assertion was that these rates were "due in significant part to having two huge waste-to-energy plants".
[btw: unproven assertions are totally anti-science]
Hypothesis: Oahu has lower rates because their larger number of customers are densely located on a smaller area. Cuts the cost of distribution.
As it happens I did find this web site that explains H-Power provides 7% of Oahu's electricity. How, specifically, not hypothetically, does that result in 18% lower rates?
http://www.opala.org/solid_waste/archive...waste.html
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I agree with James thesis about the cost of distribution being the reason for Oahu's lower electric rates.
600 square miles with a resident population of about 950,000 (Oahu).
4000 square miles with a population of about 190,000 (Hawai'i County).
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quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
And you anti-science people actually wonder why nothing gets done?
"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"
Simple answer there: for the Puna New Utopians, the Perfect must always be the enemy of the Better. Cost? not an issue; Practicality, always a fix; Impact on economy, someone else's problem, they're "self employed". So nothing gets done unless there is a real crisis - but of course our voters keep re-electing anti-science ninnies so I guess we get what we deserve...
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I call B.S.
If cost of distribution is based upon population density, why are people in the large western US states enjoying rates that are under ten cents per kwh?
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