DLNR Arrests Guide For Illegal Lava Tours

[snorkle]

007,
The fact that you show such little regard to other peoples property is an excellent indication of the need for the County's private property safeguards.

What about a house that isn't occupied? Fair game?

[kalakoa]

What about a house that isn't occupied? Fair game?

If you want a fair comparison, contrast "homeless family who takes care of the place" vs "meth biker gang turns it into a clubhouse". The former are honoring the home (and here a "greater good" argument is possible), the latter are just making a mess, but the law does not distinguish between the two.

[snorkle]

I'm thinking of honoring Lex Brodie by moving into his abandoned building and making it a Jazzercise club. (Greater good and all..)

[kalakoa]

No, the "greater good" requires a Lex Brodie's to be turned into a coffeeshop, but only after extensive interference from County.

[VancouverIslander]

Our legal system inherits it's values from deontology rather than utilitarianism (greater good), but with a lot of rejigging it so that large corporations and the very wealthy get special rules to protect their minority interests. Perhaps one day the great unwashed will band together and take advantage of the republican democracy to even things out, but I doubt it will happen.

Just call me Mike

[dakine]

Since 9/11 it's become way more fashionable to restrict access, to control everything, and we're all slaves to fashion.

[Punatic007]

We were talking about vast lava fields, no one knew where the pins were or if they would ever be reclaimed as private property. At this point hikers traversing public lands and heaven forbid putting a few toes on private undeveloped property wouldn't be the end of the world. We all did it back in the day, whenever we wanted. Nobody cared.

But one thing I do know is the lava guide business has been extremely competitive down at Uncles for the last 5 or 10 yrs. Certain folks affiliated with them like to lay claim to all the tour guide business. I've personally spoken with several folks who live on the flow who say have been threatened with physical violence if they did encroach on the business. I know Uncle does not approve of violence. So that has always been a little weird just like the extreme reaction of some posters here.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

There is a difference between the people who visited the lava flows in the 1980's and those who would like to see them in 2015.

In the 1980's, the large mega resorts were still under construction and Kona had not become the tourist destination it is today. The people who walked out to see the lava in those days were mainly residents who had a rough idea of their location, and north, south, east and west. They were most likely in fairly good physical shape, and understood some of the dangers because they heard stories over the years of fisherman washed off the cliffs, and lava shelves breaking and sliding into the sea.

Today, Volcano National Park has spent 20+ years promoting lava as a highlight to a Big Island visit. Many of the people who expect to see lava while they are here will drive from Kona in their air conditioned car. When they get out on the flow they'll be without their talking GPS unit. How much water and food should they bring along for a 1 mile, 2 mile or 3 mile hike? They have no idea. Many won't calculate their hiking time to include the return hike, which doubles the time and distance. Anyone bring the sunscreen? They are on vacation, and most likely have no idea Puna cell reception is spotty at best, and they won't be able to call their hotel concierge when a problem crops up.

There are a lot of tourists who would attempt to see the lava under less than ideal conditions if allowed. They have lawyers. Who will sue the county. Who will raise our taxes to pay for their bad decisions.

[shockwave rider]

"We were talking about vast lava fields, no one knew where the pins were or if they would ever be reclaimed as private property." It is still private property, visible pins or not. The owners do not have to "reclaim" anything, it is theirs to use or leave alone, but just because their land has been covered in lava doesn't make it public land.

That said, many people used to drive to where the road dead ended at the lava fields, and watch the lava streaming down the pali, some would hike out a ways, or even hike all the way out to the lava flow. But that wide open landscape is entirely different from the deep jungle where some of these tours have been taking people, this same company was involved in a fiasco where a teen with a sprained or broken ankle was left on the side of the path while the rest of the group hiked out to see the lava. I don't think for profit companies should be taking people who have no idea what they are getting into on these "lava hikes." If someone really wanted to access hot lava they could just hike out from the highway near the back of Ainaloa and look at the breakouts that are just above the highway, the trees are pretty sparse in a lot of that lower area, and the landscape isn't nearly as treacherous. I know there are local people who have been quietly doing that without posting pictures of their activities on facebook or charging tourists hundreds of dollars to do it.

[Punatic007]

Well, they are hiking out now. Just talked to a couple of NASA guys who winter here. Came over and showed me their photos, had the time of their life and going back out! Said it was worth the risk of a ticket. Reminded me of myself in the 80's.

I'm not big on government control, it seems there would be less lawsuits if authorities focused on finding predatory criminals instead of giving out auto tickets like it was candy as of late(a friend just got 3 tickets in Keaau when his new Jeep stalled in the construction zone, he was out of cell range and walked away to get reception)and making a big deal out of people hiking to see the lava. Or better yet focusing on correcting the errors of our judicial system that allow irresponsible lawsuits into court. You hike out to lava, you deal with the consequences.


The disparity btwn the 80's and now is sad.