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quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
Yeah, measles schmeasles.
Measles affects about 20 million people a year,[1] primarily in the developing areas of Africa and Asia.[4]
Though some will disagree, Hawaii is not a developing area of Africa and Asia. So should this affectation stat have anything to do with a mandatory Hawaii vaccination law? And divide 20 million by 7 billion for some perspective. That's an interesting decimal.
PaulW: down from 545,000 deaths in 1990.
Pick your link and put it into perspective:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ca...th_by_rate
"Kill one person, it's murder. Kill a million, it's a statistic." --Stalin?
But compared to WWII it's not that bigga deal.
The government deciding that they can put something into your bloodstream is worthy of some consideration. Yeah, I guess that's what I mean. Undecided, clearly, but worthy of consideration.
Cheers,
Kirt
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dear mike. please don't be 'shocked'. i never said i was against all vaccines. much of the name calling ( stupid, self absorbed, ninnies, etc) being done as always on punaweb. I am against mandatory vaccines and certain vaccines. I have had several, and gave my children several as they were growing up. But those vaccinations whose side effects are worse than the disease is a different matter. Many many doctors, scientists, other healthcare workers are against mandatory vaccinations. I don't know which medical journals you are referring to when you comment on the HPV vaccine. i would be interested in reading it. If you are fearful of the unvaccinated masses, what then is your stance on our open borders and letting refugees in from third world countries? It is interesting to me how people love to jump on a PC bandwagon. I am concerned that pharmaceutical companies flood our airways with this and that new drug that you need to take. Should the government start deciding meds you must take? suppose they want everyone with a cancer diagnosis to have chemo and radiation treatment. Mandate them? you might be interested in the data on how many doctors make that choice for themselves and their families... many of the medicines we take for granted went through some terrible times that the average person is not aware of. Look at the death numbers when the first birth control pills came out, or the HEP B vaccine that was given thousands of health care workers using Live Virus... OOPS! i could go on and on... i believe we should educate ourselves and make our own decisions about our bodies. You can all start your name calling now...
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I agree. I'm outraged by the new vaccine mandates here in "People's Republic of California." We thought HI would be more "live and let live" in this regard. But apparently the drug companies have sent their lobbyists to all 50 states.
Don't confuse "polio and measles vaccines" - which we got as kids - with the 25 vaccines they are now mandating just be allowed in preschool. Some are not even contagious diseases.
quote:
Originally posted by rarni
Terrifying new mandatory vaccine bills have been introduced. These have been fast-tracked without many of the public even knowing and could become law by July 2016.
http://mauimamazine.com/hawaii-vaccinati...-mandates/
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quote:
Originally posted by lquade
dear mike. please don't be 'shocked'. i never said i was against all vaccines. much of the name calling ( stupid, self absorbed, ninnies, etc) being done as always on punaweb. I am against mandatory vaccines and certain vaccines. I have had several, and gave my children several as they were growing up. But those vaccinations whose side effects are worse than the disease is a different matter. Many many doctors, scientists, other healthcare workers are against mandatory vaccinations. I don't know which medical journals you are referring to when you comment on the HPV vaccine. i would be interested in reading it. If you are fearful of the unvaccinated masses, what then is your stance on our open borders and letting refugees in from third world countries? It is interesting to me how people love to jump on a PC bandwagon. I am concerned that pharmaceutical companies flood our airways with this and that new drug that you need to take. Should the government start deciding meds you must take? suppose they want everyone with a cancer diagnosis to have chemo and radiation treatment. Mandate them? you might be interested in the data on how many doctors make that choice for themselves and their families... many of the medicines we take for granted went through some terrible times that the average person is not aware of. Look at the death numbers when the first birth control pills came out, or the HEP B vaccine that was given thousands of health care workers using Live Virus... OOPS! i could go on and on... i believe we should educate ourselves and make our own decisions about our bodies. You can all start your name calling now...
After reading this post I went back and looked for all this "name calling" you referred to, and frankly I just don't see it in this thread.
I do question the validity of this line of yours: "But those vaccinations whose side effects are worse than the disease is a different matter." Can you enlighten us on which currently required vaccines fall into this category? But please do not pull out the thoroughly debunked autism from vaccines myth. Eugene Oregon has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country for the last 30-40 years and is also one of the biggest hot spots for kids all over the autism spectrum, a large portion of whom were not vaccinated. I have a friend who is researching this for his public health PHD dissertation and Eugene totally messed up his data because so many unvaccinated kids there are on the spectrum.
I agree people should be able to make their own choices about their own bodies, until they endanger others. Typhoid Mary was a real person who refused to obey quarantine for her asymptomatic infectious disease, she was also exercising her "rights" but she caused a lot of pain, suffering and death for others. I know 3 different kids battling pediatric cancer who go to school here in Puna, does the right of a parent to not vaccinate their perfectly healthy child trump the right of those children who cannot get vaccinated to go to school safely?
As a society we have to think beyond our own little family cluster and sometimes that means doing things for the common good, instead of just looking out for own nuclear unit. I personally know people who raised children who were deaf, mentally retarded or crippled from getting rubella before there were vaccines available. I am so glad those days are over, as long as people get their kids vaccinated. If people had a little longer memories of what these diseases do they might think differently about the benefit/risk balance.
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The anti vaccine hysteria, to me, is just an elevated form of the NIMBY attitude which plagues the Big Island. Let someone else take responsibility for the benefits of a modern society.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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"Vaccines whose side effects are worse than disease"
I'm sure the people that got narcolepsy from the flu vaccination in several European countries ( not US, as brand of vaccination was not used in U.S.) in 2012 would gladly have dealt with flu if they had know what their life would be like with narcolepsy.
Mandatory vaccination is TOTALLY different than mandatory car insurance.....car insurance purchase does not require me to receive an injection of a foreign protein into my body ..... i could go into how vaccines are NOW made..... But will refrain as I don't want to raise my blood pressure..... but there is a reason why children now have allergies to eggs, dogs, peanuts etc etc.
Look at ALL the science.... Otherwise, it's only opinions and beliefs not truth.
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"Vaccines whose side effects are worse than disease"
I would take the vaccination for Dengue.
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If anyone is wondering how the anti-vaxxer movement started, it arose from a single article by one doctor (medical license now revoked) in England. His claims of a possible link to autism from a specific brand of vaccine were made because (surprise!) he had a business interest in the competing brand. He now says about his comments, "And all we urged was further research. We did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described." But yet, the anti-vaxxer movement somehow fails to listen to the founder of their crusade, even to the point of rejecting all vaccines. Here are a couple of clickable articles if you're interested:
To most, however, he’s (Andrew Wakefield) the man who authored a fraudulent study that has been refuted many times and was retracted by the journal that published it, a man whose views carry dangerous consequences for all of us. They will tell you that the former doctor—stripped of his license in 2010 by the U.K.’s General Medical Council for ethical violations and failure to disclose potentially competing financial interests—has derailed public confidence in vaccination programs that were safely eradicating serious and highly contagious diseases.
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/02/20/andre...05836.html
... Andrew Wakefield, the British gastroenterologist, who tied development of autism to the MMR vaccine in an article in The Lancet in 1998. His report was soon discredited, and the article retracted. Alas, this research, shown to be severely flawed, is still cited by opponents of childhood vaccination.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/books/...ucker.html
"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives." -Annie Dillard
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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but there is a reason why children now have allergies to eggs, dogs, peanuts etc etc.
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It ain't from vaccines...
Please go to any old cemetery and note how many children are buried there - usually from a few months to under 10 years old and then explain why vaccines are so terrible.
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At the beginning of this thread I was pro-mandatory vaccines, but after reading a few well written and articulated posts I'd have to say, no. It's stepping on too many toes to truly be for the greater good.
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