Native Hawaiians in support of TMT

[kalakoa]

why doesn't the Hawaiian people build their own observatories?

Lack of funds? Too busy arguing about "occupation"? Will more lawsuits help?

[Guest]

Aaron S, good morning and thank you for the respectful reply.

If what you say is true, that the master lease was set to expire in the year 2033. Then Wouldn't the TMT observatory also have to be decommissioned before this 2033 date? Or did the TMT possibly assume that if they built the telescope before that date then they would be more likely to extend this master lease?

[leilanidude]

Once again, hawaiians and protectors are not against science or astronomy like some here suggest. So why not allow them the future opportunities to build their own telescope projects atop their mountain, if they so choose?
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What has stopped them from already doing this? There isn't a lack of funds in all of the various Hawaiian trusts, is there?

[PaulW]

"Once again, hawaiians and protectors are not against science or astronomy like some here suggest."

From the other thread:
"They answered questions and told stories about children they knew personally who were afraid to admit they wanted to grow up to be astronomers, as well as UH students who felt they had to hide in the closet."

The two most vocal anti-telescope people on this forum are anti-science and (not surprisingly) anti-astronomy. Okay, they're mainland transplants, but I certainly never got the impression that the Protestors were big astronomy fans either.

[PaulW]

"As I have said all along the issue is not the TMT but rather the[...]"

So why delay the telescope? If I'm mad about roadworks, do I go prevent a school being built?
Why can't they pursue their grievances during and after the telescope is built if it's not the issue?

[opihikao]

quote:

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Originally posted by PaulW

"Once again, hawaiians and protectors are not against science or astronomy like some here suggest."

(*Snipped/BBM)

The two most vocal anti-telescope people on this forum are anti-science and (not surprisingly) anti-astronomy. Okay, they're mainland transplants, but I certainly never got the impression that the Protestors were big astronomy fans either.

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Aloha ahiahi, all. Mr. PaulW, Sir, (addressing the bold) this is not the issue. Astronomy fans, or not, my understanding is the core of the resistance lies in several areas:

1) Hawaii State law; specifically, Conservation Designated Land. (Mauna Kea)
2) These are "Crown Lands", should Kingdom law/Nation law apply (?).
3) Supreme Court Ruling re: permit/ Contested Case Hearing (upcoming)
4) Sub-Lease Status (per Judge Nakamura's Order - Hello, BLNR?!?)
6) Federal Recognition effort - "Na'i Aupuni" (tied to #2)


Not to mention, it is an election year. Should prove very interesting as we progress. The good thing is, everything is moving forward, and both sides will be heard.

Of note, where does OHA stand, at this point? They represent the/us "beneficiaries", and should have some sort of statement. After all, they are the entity that reaps benefits on our behalf. Frankly, I thought they would have been on the list to be heard. Curious, at best.

Bottom line is the State has failed miserably re: Management of Mauna Kea (Auditor's reports, etc.), and not to beat a dead horse, this is about far more.

Both sides have lots of "Hawaiian" people ("native" is debatable; for another discussion...lol[xx(]), most of which are educated, have basic manners, and social skills (via Kupuna teaching).

No one should be afraid to speak their mind, especially keiki. The cycle must be broken. PUEO may be able to provide that avenue for them during this process. So disheartening to hear/witness this kind of "collateral damage".

TMT is the victim of the State of Hawaii's continued usurping of the law. What bothers me greatly, is this is pitting Hawaiians against Hawaiians, yet again. Auwe!

Still trusting what is right, will be the end result in this TMT matter, and the much larger issues that face us "Hawaiians" returns to the forefront.


JMO.

[opihikao]

quote:

---

Originally posted by PaulW

"As I have said all along the issue is not the TMT but rather the[...]"

So why delay the telescope? If I'm mad about roadworks, do I go prevent a school being built?
Why can't they pursue their grievances during and after the telescope is built if it's not the issue?

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Because, Sir, the permit was issued improperly, without following the law, and basically, enough is enough. Supreme Court agreed.

BLNR/DLNR/State of Hawaii, et al, needs to be held accountable (vote, please). TMT shed lots of "light" before even being built...

JMO.

[TomK]

Opihikao,

With respect, I think you are correct in general but that doesn't explain why some, including a couple of people here, specifically target the TMT. They do this to the point of posting lies about the TMT. That is their target, not the state.

If the state were the target, then why make up stuff about the TMT? There's enough crap from the state to embarrass the hell out of them, but instead the TMT is targeted. It makes me think there really are some here who are anti-science, especially when they insult and threaten the scientists.

[kalakoa]

There isn't a lack of funds in all of the various Hawaiian trusts, is there?

Who controls that money, and what are they spending it on?

BLNR/DLNR/State of Hawaii, et al, needs to be held accountable (vote, please).

1; Holding a project hostage does not create any "accountability".

2; If "accountability" becomes a precedent, expect many more lawsuits while State is forced to revisit earlier decisions. (Obligatory: all the way down to County's game of "privately owned roads open to the public".)

[kalakoa]

There's enough crap from the state to embarrass the hell out of them, but instead the TMT is targeted.

TMT can't retaliate with selective tax audits?