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Culling animals. Sorry to be blunt here, but with a lot of our prolific species culling in principle is no different than mowing your lawn. It cannot be intermittent.
It has to be regular basis, continual. We cull animals as prolific as rats. Outcome: "Continual suppression."
In some places, such as where there are both unwanted coyotes and unwanted feral cats, it might be advisable not to cull the coyotes. (Coyotes breed prolifically. Cats breed less rapidly, but are still a moderate challenge to suppress.)
Regarding the TNR debate, I do not have the expertise of some other commentators, but one thing is clear: Allowing TNR results in the emergence of significant groups of cat lovers who organize to feed feral cats on public land (as an adjunct to or in place of having a cat at home). They become protective of all feral cats and present a strong obstacle to any culling program, even in isolated areas.
In effect they lobby against pest control--precisely one of the objectives of the animal rights movement (excepting perhaps rats).
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https://thesilversword.com/news/2013/10/...ing-lives/
"For more than 20 years, community volunteers have been taking care of the Chaminade’s wild cat population. According to Kapono Ryan, director of Communications at Chaminade, roughly 100 cats (20 kittens and 80 adults) live on campus. But as of May, Chaminade has issued a complete stop to all the volunteers from feeding the felines on campus."
20 years without actually ever getting rid of the cats is deemed success? My two years without cats is failure?
“Chaminade has no right to take this away from us,” said James Nelson, local community volunteer and cat feeder.
Jeez. Shows how much I know. I had no idea that total strangers can come on your property at will and dump s**t.
“(Chaminade is) cat killers. These poor animals are suffering every day from no food, water, or even hot, warm milk. They need to eat just as much as us humans have the privilege to.”
Now I'm confused. I heard somewhere else that they find food just fine on their own.
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Here is what might need to be done. Farfetched idea, but it has some logic.
Many TNR people are not happy with just the one or two cats (maybe more) they have at home. They want to engage with dozens of cats every day. And some TNRs probably cannot keep a cat where they live.
We need to set up a few animal rescue type areas (on public property) where all the TNRs can go every day and hang out with several dozen cats and other folks who share their views. (Kind of like dog parks.) The cats would be secured on site; restrooms and pavilion on site. Area fenced. The TNRs should be a major source of funding for these sites (say 2-3 for each island).
(Maybe on these sites we can also have some feral chickens and peacocks, so those animal lovers can engage).
When this is done, there is a much stronger case for banning all TNR operations statewide. The gripers about cat-culling will be directed to the nearest "Cat Center" so they can commiserate with other cat lovers, but also reduce their stress by engaging with the cats on site.
IMO it will be difficult to make headway on closing TNR sites without something like this. The TNRs will continue to set up feeding sites in new locations.
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Many TNR people are not happy with just the one or two cats (maybe more) they have at home. They want to engage with dozens of cats every day. And some TNRs probably cannot keep a cat where they live.
This is an incorrect assumption. All you have to do is talk to some of them and you'll realize they just don't want to see them starving. If it was a matter of just visiting cats, they could go to one of the no kill shelters like Rainbow Friends in Mt. View and see animals all day long, especially during kitten season which is now.
For **** sakes, TNR has nothing to do with anything. If you want to stop feral cats, everyone has to think differently and sterilize all their pets.
Now I'm confused. I heard somewhere else that they find food just fine on their own.
They will survive but not all of them and not enough will starve to fix the problem either. As I mentioned to you before the examples in 3rd world countries that they have large feral cat problems and no one is feeding them.
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TNRs can go every day and hang out with several dozen cats and other folks who share their views
It could be called the Panaewa Rainforest Zoo.
Four people are in a room and seven leave. How many have to enter again before it's empty?
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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Perhaps could set it up in part of the Zoo. But probably not.
TNR people want more latitude than this. Aside from petting zoos inside zoos (and they usually have an attendant standing by) you don't touch the animals. Zoos have hours and closed days.
This place has to be run by the TNR people. They might want 50-80 cats. Probably want access 16 hours day. If they do not have something like this, there will be an endless TNR sites cropping up. These folks are pretty fanatical.
My comment: Many TNR people are not happy with just the one or two cats (maybe more) they have at home. They want to engage with dozens of cats every day.
Response: This is an incorrect assumption. All you have to do is talk to some of them and you'll realize they just don't want to see them starving.
Disagree. And I did take the care to say "many," not all. TNRs are composed of a broad range of people who have heavy emotional involvement with cats. Some are cat hoarders who are no longer allowed to keep a large number of cats at home. It is not just preventing animals from starving. If it was, TNRs would just put the food down and walk away. (I know some of these folks from my regular walks.)
TNRs often remain at the sites for a long time, engaging with the animals. Naming them. Discussing with other TNRs on site the attributes of each cat. The people on Kauai that the article on top profiled are a good example. A quote from Basil Scott on Kauai: “The alternative is killing cats, and that will build resentment and anger on this island. Believe me, there’s a bunch of junkyard dogs out there ready to pounce. We will bare our fangs and make life very difficult for them. My side is famous for that.”
Yes indeed it is.
* * * *
Rainbow Friends in Mt. View - good idea. IMO we will need more of these around the state.
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When ferrets started causing ecological disasters the ferret industry worked with states and many of them crafted laws that only allow sterilized ferrets to be imported or sold/traded/bartered, effectively making all "pet ferrets" incapable of breeding. To my knowledge most pet ferrets in this country come from one or two suppliers that breed and sterilize every animal that leaves their facility.
There is a solution for Hawaii even if there isn't the desire to see it happen: Require that all imported felines are incapable of breeding, require that all existing pet felines are fixed, and require that all cats are maintained on the owner's property (something that is generally legislated for dogs, but for some reason does not apply to cats). Whatever is left over, start culling them. Offering bounties have made species extinct, what has worked in the past may work again.
I'm not throwing my support behind the above ideas, frankly I don't think those ideas alone will work because we would need a comprehensive solution that includes rats, mongoose, and probably other species too or else the ecology will be worse off. I'm just trying to say that this isn't a problem without a solution. This is a problem that lacks the will to find a solution.
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Earlier comment from terracore: “The stereotype of the 'crazy cat person' has some scientific merit. Cats carry a parasite that infects rodents and humans... people who feed feral cats might not be thinking rationally.”
I do not think the parasite link has any basis, but we still have to consider rationality. Paul Kvinta, author of the cat article, also did a 2015 article on kangaroo culling (link at end of the cat story). Here are some excerpts. As you read them you realize you can replace kangaroo with “cat” or any other animal to be saved:
“Around Canberra city the animals are everywhere. In 2009 kangaroo densities (were) 510 per square kilometer..., more than five times the desirable amount for healthy grassland ecosystems.”
Kangaroo protector Carolyn Drew monitors the culling site “every night during the cull. Her colleagues watch other sites...No kangaroo deserves to die, Drew insists, so she’s here every night, as a witness if nothing else. ‘Kangaroos are sentient beings with feelings, hopes, and dreams,’ she says. (Drews and others try, with varying degrees of success, to interfere with the culls.) ...We felt what the animals felt...we were sensitized to their perspective...”
"Drew admits that it’s hard, year after year, tramping into the bush in freezing weather at night, risking arrest, and having little to show for it. Drew says 'lots of (kangaroo protectors) are still suffering PTSD from seeing (a particularly bloody cull)'....”
Do not doubt that these feelings are similar to what we will see from Hawaii’s feral cat protectors, should culling programs ramp up. Are we to regard this as rational behavior? I don’t think so.
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkD
"Drew admits that it’s hard, year after year, tramping into the bush in freezing weather at night, risking arrest, and having little to show for it. Drew says 'lots of (kangaroo protectors) are still suffering PTSD from seeing (a particularly bloody cull)'....”
Do not doubt that these feelings are similar to what we will see from Hawaii’s feral cat protectors, should culling programs ramp up. Are we to regard this as rational behavior? I don’t think so.
It's about as rational as most human activity. She provides her reasoning. Ascribing hopes and dreams to a kangaroo may not appear rational to you, but there's no reason not to think they're not sentient, have feelings, etc. Same as with cats. The greater issue is that you have to factor they way people who are _____ fanciers think about animals (fill in the blank with whatever animal under consideration). The same applies to cats, dogs, horses, etc. Why did people go to the trouble to move wild burros from Hawaii to the mainland instead of just shooting them? Because some people care about equines. Why do some people become almost murderously enraged when a dog is shot?
You have to consider the way others think about these animals. Why? Because we live in a liberal democracy, and when it comes to something YOU hold dear, why should anyone who does care give a $**& about it? We consider other people's feelings because we want the same consideration when it's our turn.
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* should be "anyone who doesn't care..."
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